ALPA vs ALPA merger

[flythere]

You forgot about the love field slot !
I was wondering if it's possible that the Asian carrier that was interested might be a player in this as well !!?! To fill in the pieces you speak of ..

Wasn't BT, JH and some other players in China within the last month or so meeting with a Chinese carrier?

Here's another option;

Why would AS give or lease those scare-buses to JB? So JB could use them against AS, like Allegiant did with the MD-80's. What about Boeing taking those buses in a deal with AS to buy or lease 10-15 767ER's?? Those 767's would be used to fly international out of SEA, SFO, LAX and JFK. Boeing is having a fire-side sale on 767's, they are trying to keep the line going.

AS would be able to start feeding its own international flights to Asia and Europe. That combined with the code share agreements with other foreign carriers makes for interesting fodder huh?!?!

 

[flythere]

Well, it's a done deal! 2.6 Bil/$57 a share! Interesting tid-bit, AK is signaling they may want to keep the scare-buses initially, training mx folks to work on them.

 

[msmb]

Date of hire then put them in the stack on some kind of ratio ... With fences on equipment

 

[Old School 737]

Date of hire then put them in the stack on some kind of ratio ... With fences on equipment

Why fences .. I might want to bid the bus !

 

[Old School 737]

But seriously I don't see the company wanting any Alaska guys moving over to the bus .. But want the Virgin guys moving over to the Boeing ...

 

[flythere]

But seriously I don't see the company wanting any Alaska guys moving over to the bus .. But want the Virgin guys moving over to the Boeing ...

I think you are correct! The only caveat being if they decide to keep those scare-buses long term, until the leases expire! Then I could see a JFK or SFO scare-bus base. That would allow them to still operate the buses, taking advantage of the leases and lower operating costs,(no heavy checks etc) especially if they are still under some type of incentive deal from Toulouse.

That would keep a MX base with those airplanes, my guess would be JFK, gives them an east coast base to perform daily checks and light mx. Plus it's closer to the heavy mx base on the east coast.

 

[Full of LUV]

Wasn't BT, JH and some other players in China within the last month or so meeting with a Chinese carrier?

Here's another option;

Why would AS give or lease those scare-buses to JB? So JB could use them against AS, like Allegiant did with the MD-80's. What about Boeing taking those buses in a deal with AS to buy or lease 10-15 767ER's?? Those 767's would be used to fly international out of SEA, SFO, LAX and JFK. Boeing is having a fire-side sale on 767's, they are trying to keep the line going.

AS would be able to start feeding its own international flights to Asia and Europe. That combined with the code share agreements with other foreign carriers makes for interesting fodder huh?!?!

The day AS buys 767's or any widebody and starts flying international out of SEA, SFO, LAX, and JFK will be the end of many code share deals they presently have.
AS will have to decide whether it wants to be a code share $#@#$ to every foreign airline looking to do business in the US or become it's own flag carrier.

 

[maru657]

Code sharing with a foriegn carrier has its benefits. At least you can reasonably assume they won't try to "merge" you and tack your pilots onto the bottom of someone else's seniority list.

 

[BeachBummer]

The day AS buys 767's or any widebody and starts flying international out of SEA, SFO, LAX, and JFK will be the end of many code share deals they presently have.
AS will have to decide whether it wants to be a code share $#@#$ to every foreign airline looking to do business in the US or become it's own flag carrier.

Sucks that DAL UAL and AA don't code share with any other foreign carriers. AK would be hosed if they got bigger planes.

 

[Flyer1015]

ALPA Merger Policy lays out a process and several guidelines, but doesn't have a methodology for integration. In practice, Jim is correct about relative seniority playing a large factor in most arbitrator decisions, but it's not codified in ALPA Merger Policy.

Merger Policy follows a simple formula:

1. Direct negotiations between the two pilot merger committees to try to reach a deal

2. If that fails, go to mediation to see if a mediator can assist in reaching a consensual deal

3. If that still doesn't work, go to arbitration, and arbitrators are directed to take into account various factors such as career expectations.

For a JetBlue/Virgin merger, expect largely straight ratio within status (captain and FO) with maybe some extra slotting near the top for JetBlue pilots to account for a pilot group with a longer average length of service, but not much.

What would you say for AS-VX?

 

[Flyer1015]

Your prognostications have proven to be incredibly insightful in the past.

I agree, which is why I asked above

 

[PCL_128]

What would you say for AS-VX?

Any idea which attorney the Alaska MEC has hired? That might give some indication about how they'll try to proceed with it.

Generally, if it gets to arbitration, the answer is always the same: ratio by category and status. But the Alaska MEC is going to fight tooth and nail to prevent it. It's going to be ugly.

 

[Old School 737]

We hired the same one Delta had I believe ..

 

[PCL_128]

Freund? He'll be a voice of reason. Might help. It'll still be ugly, though.

 

[Flyer1015]

Is there a reason to believe that as 2 ALPA carriers if the two pilot merger committees can't work out, it won't go into arbitration?

 

[tomgoodman]

It'll still be ugly, though.

Perhaps a nice poem would help?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yJNZwuamwj0

 

[PCL_128]

Is there a reason to believe that as 2 ALPA carriers if the two pilot merger committees can't work out, it won't go into arbitration?

Depends on whether outside factors are involved. Remember, Southwest management was the wild card that screwed us over. They shouldn't have been involved, but they interjected themselves into the process and started making threats. I doubt Alaska management would do the same, but you never know what factors could come to play. All else being equal, though, unless the Virgin MEC decides to just roll over, I can't see it not going to arbitration.

 

[Flyer1015]

Great point, and thanks for your insight. Your track record is spot on when it comes to these kinds of things so I appreciate it.

 

[canyonblue]

Indeed they have. Just look at the quote in one of your coworker's signature line of me predicting the screwing of the AirTran pilots years in advance.

Hell yeah, it is my signature line. I was on the same page as you, that it wouldn't be good for AirTran if we acquired you. Then you seemed shocked when it happened, thats what I couldn't understand.

 

[PCL_128]

Hell yeah, it is my signature line. I was on the same page as you, that it wouldn't be good for AirTran if we acquired you. Then you seemed shocked when it happened, thats what I couldn't understand.

I was fooled by our strike vote and the incredible turnouts of multiple SPC events during late stage contract negotiations. I thought our pilots had actually grown a spine. On that, I was wrong.