ALPA Takes Action on AIT and Crewpass

[waveflyer]

Why can't the CASS database be used...It's good enough to get us in the cockpit..Why isn't it good enough to get us through security?

More excuses....

Joe- this is a good post- the other political TPs don't really fit this thread- you want to bash the lib ideology or the bush era hypocrisy I suggestthe non aviation chat section.

I don't want your good point above to be lost in blatant partisanship

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

His administration CREATED the homeland security department and wrote the REGULATIONS governing the TSA. He and Tom Ridge created this massive monster with the help of a REPUBLICAN congress. Who else is there to blame here? What revisionism are you operating under?

I lean significantly right in my voting (can't remember ever voting for a dem), but citation has it right here.

Bush created the camel that is DHS and then let it stick its nose in the tent. The rest is history.

 

[tomgoodman]

The real reason?

Why can't the CASS database be used...It's good enough to get us in the cockpit..Why isn't it good enough to get us through security?

Good question. The answer may have more to do with public relations than with public safety. Long ago, when crewmembers were first required to go through security, a senior FAA official was asked (off the record) how long this was going to continue. He said: "Indefinitely. We know that properly-identified crewmembers are not a security threat, but we found that having them screened greatly increases passenger compliance with the program."

If this is the case, then passenger squawks about the new screening procedures could make it even less likely that crewmembers will be allowed to bypass them.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Why can't the CASS database be used...It's good enough to get us in the cockpit..Why isn't it good enough to get us through security?

More excuses....

Spot on.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Passenger screening cost for current method - about $2.50 (hence the 9/11 fee per segment)

Stands to reason pilot screening costs the same EXCEPT, TSA doesn't collect a fee from pilots (yet).

I go through security about 150 times per year.

$50 (annual cost for CrewPass) divided by 150 = 33 cents per screening.

How again is this NOT a huge savings for the taxpayers?

 

[Jonny Sacko]

There!

That ought to keep those ungrateful sons of b!tches quiet for awile. Now let's get to the Ponderosa. My dime, boys!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The "stand" gets taken tomorrow, Friday 12 Nov. A committee has been looking at it this week and Prater's letter says they'll come out with info tomorrow. The usual bureacratic nonsense because it will likely just agree with what APA had the courage enough to say first, then followed by USAPA--decline the machine and request the pat down in private.

But at least then there will be a unified front getting CrewPass done, and fast, please!!

That is simple, it takes time to 1) build a consensus of all of the MEC's and then two go talk to the power people to garner support. Remember that all of this work was done during a midterm election campaign and election when most of these ppl were on the other side of the country.

As I have said on another board, the fact that ALPA got any face time speaks volumes of their pull in DC.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Why can't the CASS database be used...It's good enough to get us in the cockpit..Why isn't it good enough to get us through security?

More excuses....

Joe, it could be there needs to be more than picture verification done for bypassing security, as one stipulation of JSing is that you are on official company business or you have been screened.

Ergo, the database is a good first step, but other safeguards are required to be put in to place, and that is where the initial cost is.

For a company like ASA you are probably looking at 90K dollars. Not a ton of money but money that the company is not willing to spend unless there is an ROI on the investment.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Ya know most majors where the money would come from, have not made a profit and were in CH11 just a few short years ago. CREWPASS may have been important for a lot of people, but most were looking at how to save their jobs and airlines. Now that this era has passed, and the focus is back on it, we may see a resolution.

To date the only airline with a CREWPASS type of deal is ALK, and the fact is that theirs is not really crewpass.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe, it could be there needs to be more than picture verification done for bypassing security, as one stipulation of JSing is that you are on official company business or you have been screened.

Ergo, the database is a good first step, but other safeguards are required to be put in to place, and that is where the initial cost is.

For a company like ASA you are probably looking at 90K dollars. Not a ton of money but money that the company is not willing to spend unless there is an ROI on the investment.

So CASS is good enough to let me into the cockpit, where I have access to the controls and to a crash axe, but not go around security. Sorry, but that kind of logic only makes sense to a beaurocrat in a large federal agency.

 

[SLOTH]

Joe,

ACL65PILOT is right. The only way to go through CASS for the JS is after having gone through "security" screening. I do believe that you're on the right track. Why not have security screening (ie: Crewpass) and CASS all in one? The current "security" screening process is just a dog and pony show!

 

[PuffDriver]

So CASS is good enough to let me into the cockpit, where I have access to the controls and to a crash axe, but not go around security. Sorry, but that kind of logic only makes sense to a beaurocrat in a large federal agency.

No it's not. You have already been through security when you gain access to the cockpit. You do not know enough about this, big surprise, to be commenting intelligently.

CASS is not an approved permanent process from the TSA for permanent alternate screening access.
:bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

His administration CREATED the homeland security department and wrote the REGULATIONS governing the TSA. He and Tom Ridge created this massive monster with the help of a REPUBLICAN congress. Who else is there to blame here? What revisionism are you operating under?

Actually, there is plenty of blame to go to St. Reagan.....

His union busting and creation of the corporate welfare state was the foundation for Bush....

Back to crewpass... as apathetic and self serving airline pilots are.... when it came time to have some "balls" I am sure everyone will sheepishly be obedient slave wages and go for the radiation or rape....

It is not like the Americans protest like the French.....

 

[Redmeat]

Instead of merely complaining to the media about the changed procedures or writing to you with advice on the security screening options that you already know, I decided to try to change the U.S. government’s decisions.

Yours in Solidarity,

John Prater, President



ALPA: The Pilots Union

Whatever...

More political mumbo jumbo from Herndon.

APA and "Complaining to the media" was SOMETHING. Unlike ALPA, that now, feeling pressure, feels that it must act (by issuing a statement ).

Very transparent Prater...very transparent.

We 'regular Joe' line-pilots aren't as think as you dumb we are!

 

[nimtz]

There is one, many times two, TSA people monitoring the exits of all security areas. Just set up a lane for uniformed on duty crew only and this guy at the exit, who's just sitting anyway, can check IDs against CASS.

Ah but you neglect to mention the vital responsibility of the 2nd person at the exit area. It is critical is to monitor that the 1st person is doing there job and not distracted by sadistic text messages. Remember this hero that is our last line of defense against terrorists...

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-01-07/...rity-breach-tsa-unidentified-man?_s=PM:TRAVEL

 

[nyboilermaker]

This whole thing could be resolved very easily by... announcing that after November 23, 2010 Pilots will decline the AIT, will request a private screening...Crew Pass would be here before you can say "show some balls".

Bingo. We have a winner. Well said.

 

[jetflier]

Let's see, ALPA 50,000 pilots multiplied by $50.00/pilot = $2,500,000 annual fee. Only $6,849/day for all pilots / 50000 ALPA pilots = .13 cents per day per pilot ! GMAFB !

Unless my math is wrong, that amount is doable by ALPA, Airlines or even the TSA !

If that's too expensive than the TSA can just give us a freebie like all the other airport employees get, and let us access through the same access points as caterers, ramp workers, mechanics, fast food workers,ect.....

 

[AeroDork]

Actually, there is plenty of blame to go to St. Reagan.....

His union busting and creation of the corporate welfare state was the foundation for Bush....

Back to crewpass... as apathetic and self serving airline pilots are.... when it came time to have some "balls" I am sure everyone will sheepishly be obedient slave wages and go for the radiation or rape....

It is not like the Americans protest like the French.....

Rez O. Liberal has a point ya know. Ain't no airline pilots going to walk over this. Boxes have to be checked first, yadda yadda. There are rules that have to be followed leading up to a strike. And you know how we good little pilots must follow the rules (while management works the rules in their favor to rape and pillage).

Most ALPA members have no right to degrade the French by using the "Frogs" epithet. They've struck more in the last two months to attempt to better their situation, whatever situation that may be, than US airline pilots have in the last 2 decades.

Now follow the rules and walk through the scanner.

 

[BornAgainPagan]

I'll opt for the grope. However, I'll make sure to work up a woody before getting felt up.

 

[waka]

Really? That is your idea of having "balls"?

How about beginning (pick a date), Pilots will decline any and all screenings beyond positive identification. PERIOD. End of story, set the brakes. (That is having "balls".)

Your logic train is a bit flawed there Sparky. If we don't get through security, how are we going to "set the brakes"?

 

[waka]

Unless you vote Libertarian, you contribute to this problem.

I remember many airline pilots demanding that the security screeners be "federalized" because the private security folks were such a joke....I miss those Barney Fifes without much authority....

What a stupidly arrogant contradiction.

A) Libertarianism is hardly the panacea to our country's ills.
B) I thought that Libertarians like privatization of most government functions. How did that work out for ya?

 

[JoeMerchant]

What a stupidly arrogant contradiction.

A) Libertarianism is hardly the panacea to our country's ills.
B) I thought that Libertarians like privatization of most government functions. How did that work out for ya?

911 would have happened with TSA at the checkpoints too.

Given TSA vs. the private security before, I vote for the way it was. I guess you prefer the over zealous power happy overpaid federal blue smurfs....

I can't believe some of you still defend the TSA.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No it's not. You have already been through security when you gain access to the cockpit. You do not know enough about this, big surprise, to be commenting intelligently.

CASS is not an approved permanent process from the TSA for permanent alternate screening access.
:bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling:

This response is typical for you Puff...Only you would defend TSA logic. Most of the time I am in the cockpit, I have never been thru security...I believe it is YOU that don't know enough to comment intelligently.

Why are you defending the TSA here? You are one of the few.....

 

[waka]

911 would have happened with TSA at the checkpoints too.

Given TSA vs. the private security before, I vote for the way it was. I guess you prefer the over zealous power happy overpaid federal blue smurfs....

I can't believe some of you still defend the TSA.

I can't believe that you thought I was defending the TSA.


uh, scratch that. Actually, coming from you, I can believe it.