ALPA Takes Action on AIT and Crewpass

[tailwindz]

This whole thing could be resolved very easily by ALPA, SWAPA, and APA announcing that after November 23, 2010 Pilots will decline the AIT, will request a private screening, and will insist on another flight crewmember being present for said screening. Crew Pass would be here before you can say "show some balls".

Really? That is your idea of having "balls"?

How about beginning (pick a date), Pilots will decline any and all screenings beyond positive identification. PERIOD. End of story, set the brakes. (That is having "balls".)

 

[CitationLover]

Pilots should be more concerned with the bad press causing people to stop flying. The Bush Brown Shirts, oops I mean TSA, is about to cause a lot of people to stop flying because of this nonsense. This "security" nonsense has to stop. Al Qaeda wants a bomb on a plane, guess what, its getting on that plane one way or another.

I cannot believe in 10 years how much the pussification of this country has progressed that we give up basic liberties to these jack asses. Shame on us. Growing up in the 70's and 80's The Soviets had thousands of nuclear missiles aimed right at us, now we pee our pants when Iran is building ONE. The TSA simply fits this illusion.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Pilots should be more concerned with the bad press causing people to stop flying. The Bush Brown Shirts, oops I mean TSA, is about to cause a lot of people to stop flying because of this nonsense. This "security" nonsense has to stop. Al Qaeda wants a bomb on a plane, guess what, its getting on that plane one way or another.

I cannot believe in 10 years how much the pussification of this country has progressed that we give up basic liberties to these jack asses. Shame on us. Growing up in the 70's and 80's The Soviets had thousands of nuclear missiles aimed right at us, now we pee our pants when Iran is building ONE. The TSA simply fits this illusion.

I agree, but you can't blame EVERYTHING on Bush....Cradle to grave nanny states are the foundation of the Democratic Party...It's time to stop blaming EVERTHING on Bush.....

 

[densoo]

Why can't the CASS database be used...It's good enough to get us in the cockpit..Why isn't it good enough to get us through security?

More excuses....

There is one, many times two, TSA people monitoring the exits of all security areas. Just set up a lane for uniformed on duty crew only and this guy at the exit, who's just sitting anyway, can check IDs against CASS.

 

[CitationLover]

I agree, but you can't blame EVERYTHING on Bush....Cradle to grave nanny states are the foundation of the Democratic Party...It's time to stop blaming EVERTHING on Bush.....

His administration CREATED the homeland security department and wrote the REGULATIONS governing the TSA. He and Tom Ridge created this massive monster with the help of a REPUBLICAN congress. Who else is there to blame here? What revisionism are you operating under?

 

[redflyer65]

Something doesn't smell right.

Who's been paying for the years of CrewPass benefits in BWI and PIT?

It's staffed by ONE TSA agent and a computer. The TSA can't pay for that service? There seems to be quite a number of them hanging around. I call BS.

 

[JoeMerchant]

His administration CREATED the homeland security department and wrote the REGULATIONS governing the TSA. He and Tom Ridge created this massive monster with the help of a REPUBLICAN congress. Who else is there to blame here? What revisionism are you operating under?

In response to the "soccer moms" and all the people in this country who "demand security"....Are you going to deny that the Democratic Party panders to this same group of voters?

Unless you vote Libertarian, you contribute to this problem.

I remember many airline pilots demanding that the security screeners be "federalized" because the private security folks were such a joke....I miss those Barney Fifes without much authority....

 

[densoo]

Something doesn't smell right.

Who's been paying for the years of CrewPass benefits in BWI and PIT?

It's staffed by ONE TSA agent and a computer. The TSA can't pay for that service? There seems to be quite a number of them hanging around. I call BS.

If enough pilots request it, there will be at least one TSA person whose full-time job will be to take crewmembers to a private screening area.

Eventually they will figure out that they may as well take this person who does the private pat downs and use him for just checking names against a roster. Seems like would be a lot easier.

 

[densoo]

............

 

[CitationLover]

In response to the "soccer moms" and all the people in this country who "demand security"....Are you going to deny that the Democratic Party panders to this same group of voters?

Unless you vote Libertarian, you contribute to this problem.

I remember many airline pilots demanding that the security screeners be "federalized" because the private security folks were such a joke....I miss those Barney Fifes without much authority....

Nice revisionist history. BOTH major political parties DEMANDED the patriot act. The only NO vote in the Senate was a Democrat. 98-1 with one abstain. As a CA you should understand the concept of "captain's authority", I guess you believe Bush had no authority as El Presidente when this Republican did the following:

Expanded the federal government through 9/11 with the Department of Homeland Security
Gave our generation the largest entitlement since the Great Society with Medicare prescription drug
Bailed out an entire business through TARP

All the while speaking with the ability of an 8th grader. NO republican should be proud of Bush.

 

[waveflyer]

Why can't the CASS database be used...It's good enough to get us in the cockpit..Why isn't it good enough to get us through security?

More excuses....

Joe- this is a good post- the other political TPs don't really fit this thread- you want to bash the lib ideology or the bush era hypocrisy I suggestthe non aviation chat section.

I don't want your good point above to be lost in blatant partisanship

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

His administration CREATED the homeland security department and wrote the REGULATIONS governing the TSA. He and Tom Ridge created this massive monster with the help of a REPUBLICAN congress. Who else is there to blame here? What revisionism are you operating under?

I lean significantly right in my voting (can't remember ever voting for a dem), but citation has it right here.

Bush created the camel that is DHS and then let it stick its nose in the tent. The rest is history.

 

[tomgoodman]

The real reason?

Why can't the CASS database be used...It's good enough to get us in the cockpit..Why isn't it good enough to get us through security?

Good question. The answer may have more to do with public relations than with public safety. Long ago, when crewmembers were first required to go through security, a senior FAA official was asked (off the record) how long this was going to continue. He said: "Indefinitely. We know that properly-identified crewmembers are not a security threat, but we found that having them screened greatly increases passenger compliance with the program."

If this is the case, then passenger squawks about the new screening procedures could make it even less likely that crewmembers will be allowed to bypass them.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Why can't the CASS database be used...It's good enough to get us in the cockpit..Why isn't it good enough to get us through security?

More excuses....

Spot on.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Passenger screening cost for current method - about $2.50 (hence the 9/11 fee per segment)

Stands to reason pilot screening costs the same EXCEPT, TSA doesn't collect a fee from pilots (yet).

I go through security about 150 times per year.

$50 (annual cost for CrewPass) divided by 150 = 33 cents per screening.

How again is this NOT a huge savings for the taxpayers?

 

[Jonny Sacko]

There!

That ought to keep those ungrateful sons of b!tches quiet for awile. Now let's get to the Ponderosa. My dime, boys!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The "stand" gets taken tomorrow, Friday 12 Nov. A committee has been looking at it this week and Prater's letter says they'll come out with info tomorrow. The usual bureacratic nonsense because it will likely just agree with what APA had the courage enough to say first, then followed by USAPA--decline the machine and request the pat down in private.

But at least then there will be a unified front getting CrewPass done, and fast, please!!

That is simple, it takes time to 1) build a consensus of all of the MEC's and then two go talk to the power people to garner support. Remember that all of this work was done during a midterm election campaign and election when most of these ppl were on the other side of the country.

As I have said on another board, the fact that ALPA got any face time speaks volumes of their pull in DC.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Why can't the CASS database be used...It's good enough to get us in the cockpit..Why isn't it good enough to get us through security?

More excuses....

Joe, it could be there needs to be more than picture verification done for bypassing security, as one stipulation of JSing is that you are on official company business or you have been screened.

Ergo, the database is a good first step, but other safeguards are required to be put in to place, and that is where the initial cost is.

For a company like ASA you are probably looking at 90K dollars. Not a ton of money but money that the company is not willing to spend unless there is an ROI on the investment.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Ya know most majors where the money would come from, have not made a profit and were in CH11 just a few short years ago. CREWPASS may have been important for a lot of people, but most were looking at how to save their jobs and airlines. Now that this era has passed, and the focus is back on it, we may see a resolution.

To date the only airline with a CREWPASS type of deal is ALK, and the fact is that theirs is not really crewpass.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe, it could be there needs to be more than picture verification done for bypassing security, as one stipulation of JSing is that you are on official company business or you have been screened.

Ergo, the database is a good first step, but other safeguards are required to be put in to place, and that is where the initial cost is.

For a company like ASA you are probably looking at 90K dollars. Not a ton of money but money that the company is not willing to spend unless there is an ROI on the investment.

So CASS is good enough to let me into the cockpit, where I have access to the controls and to a crash axe, but not go around security. Sorry, but that kind of logic only makes sense to a beaurocrat in a large federal agency.