ALPA Signs off on Age 65

[PCL_128]

ALPA changed on age 60/65 because of the class action law suit against the union that was filed by an over age 60 pilot group.

Um, no. Not even close. Thanks for playing, though.

 

[Freight Dog]

Undaunted... how's retirement treating you?

 

[Freight Dog]

Rez... you're completely ignoring what I'm telling you. It's useless to talk to you when you're completely refusing to acknowledge that ALPA has alienated its members by not listening to them.

Why waste time on attending ALPA meetings then? I'm not saying it's the correct attitude, but that's the prevalent thinking.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Undaunted... how's retirement treating you?

Well I would not say I retired. I was terminated from my airline job for no good cause but that's the way it goes for now. I am now more involved in giving flight tests. I do keep busy with that. I just passed a guy yesterday. That was good because I flunked one the day before.

Being forced to retire against your will when you have done nothing wrong is not a good thing.

 

[Flopgut]

ALPA changed on age 60/65 because of the class action law suit against the union that was filed by an over age 60 pilot group. The "survey" was not the reason for ALPA's change of position it was the law suit.

In any event, the law suit will financially destroy ALPA for their discriminatory practices on this issue. From the posts I read hear that should make everyone happy. Right?

Undaunted Flyer! You're back, so that can only mean you have some new piece of information to laud over us (I guess that's what you're eluding to). OK, go ahead and spill it, let's hear it. How much in damages are you guys expecting?

BTW, can you not stay adequately busy giving checkrides? Didn't you fly the triple 7? If so, why are you not at JetAir? Just curious.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Undaunted Flyer! You're back, so that can only mean you have some new piece of information to laud over us (I guess that's what you're eluding to). OK, go ahead and spill it, let's hear it. How much in damages are you guys expecting?

BTW, can you not stay adequately busy giving checkrides? Didn't you fly the triple 7? If so, why are you not at JetAir? Just curious.

No big news yet. And regarding JetAir, I just don't want to live abroad and be home so little.

 

[Flopgut]

No big news yet. And regarding JetAir, I just don't want to live abroad and be home so little.

CAL recently had about 40 guys go over there. Sounds like a good deal, they were all going to live in the US. I can't imagine that's not better than hanging around this issue/lawsuit thing?

Frankly, since these guys didn't go back to the right seat, I think the guys under 65 ought to get to come back. I don't totally agree with you of course, I think it's kind of sad you don't want to go tackle some other life's ambition.

Aren't you motorcycling more? Enjoying time with the family I'm sure?

 

[Flopgut]

I'll tell you something UF, if you had to come back to UAL staffed in the bottom half of ANY sub base, you'd be taking your credentials to JetAir for sure! And so would 80% of your coworkers. This getting back to UAL thing only looks good because you think you'd get that great schedule back.

Why don't you let those guys deal with all that and you go do what 80% of them [us] wish we could do?

 

[d328pilot]

Incorrect. There is no majority. Only 30% particapted in the online survey. In addition, of the minority particaption, a majority said that if the change was inevitable, then they want ALPA to be a part of the process.

So by using that logic, the US has never had a legitimate elected leader.

Most pilots don't know thier contract and they don't know who thier elected reps are. They have never read the C&BL and have know idea who comprises "ALPA National" yet they hate and despise "Nat'l"

Well we can agree this is a problem. But its not up to the individual members to fix it. If pilots dont know who their reps are or dont know the contract, then that is a failure of the leadership. From the LEC all the way up to the top. People will be involved if they feel that they are valued.

True that many pilots are working during meetings. At the same time I have spoken to reps that have stated.. during contract negotiations a LEC meeting was being held and outside the meeting room pilots were updating Jepps, talking to freinds, playing cards, etc.. In addition, when the airline declares BK suddenly it is standing room only in the LEC meeting... So pilots en masse know how to show up to a meeting.

I have never been to a meeting where the above takes place. Even if it does, at least they are there. They are not getting paid to attend a meeting and if they have to use the time to get other things done, then so be it. Most guys have lots of responsibilites they have to juggle. Do you expect a guy to drive 30 minutes from home on one of his 2 days off that he could be spending with his kids if he feels that the organization doesnt value his opinion? Until there is a change in the type of leadership, participation will continue to decline. Again, a FAILURE of leadership, not a member problem.

I've seen many pilots show up wanting to pass a resolution with zero documentation! Just a verbal effort!
Now he fails at his attempt and declares ALPA fubar!

Again, a LEADERSHIP failure. Did your leadership attempt to help or explain how resolutions work? Telling people to go out and read Robert's rules, the constitution and the bylaws is like telling a voter to go out and read the constitution. They are not going to do it. Its legaleze and boring. The leadership should find a way to make this information streamlined and more user friendly.

If pilots really want ALPA to function like they treat it today, then dues will have to go double digit, so professional politicians can take over. However, the new complaint would be that these reps are non pilots and are out of touch. (sound familiar). In addition the increased dues would go over like profanity in church.

There are other unions that are effective and they dont require double digit dues. ALPA is a problem that will not be fixed by throwing money at it.

As I said before, ALPA members feel that the association does not value their input. Until that changes, no one will increase involvement. ALPA suffers from a sever lack of LEADERSHIP. It really is just that simple.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez... you're completely ignoring what I'm telling you. It's useless to talk to you when you're completely refusing to acknowledge that ALPA has alienated its members by not listening to them.

Look, man, if we sat down and had a beer there would be way more in common than not....

I agree that ALPA has alienated its members. The membership is flaming pissed off!

Why waste time on attending ALPA meetings then? I'm not saying it's the correct attitude, but that's the prevalent thinking.

And you agree...

If we don't have representation then we are really screwed! We have to have representation!! If ALPA isn't working then we need to fix it. Like any relationship, in this case between the ALPA leadership and membership, it takes two.........

The biggest complaint is that the leadership doesn't understand the membership. If that is ture then one could also argue that the membership doesn't understand the leadership.

I'll also argue that as pilots we are leaders. You can't be an effective Captain without exercising leadership. So if you are an FO then you must have some leadership qualities as well.

But when it comes time to not fly jets and manage ones career, leadership qualities go away.

If ALPA is FUBAR then ignoring it won't solve the problem. If ALPA is broken then observing the faults doesn't solve problems. Liken it to being stuck on the side of the road. Are you going to hate the car manufacturer or are you going to fix the problem so you can start driving again. Heck, hate the manufacturer but fix the problem....we need fix the problem...


If more pilots got involved... if they became more activist in thier careers I think two things would happen....

The members would begin to see that airmanship skills aren't applicable and political skills are. In addition, they would begin to understand the leaderships actions a bit better...

But most importantly...............

The involved membership will provide increased ideas and methodologies for shaping the association...

The point? Increased particiaption and activism can only make things better. If we continue to be apathetic, cynical and unsupportive then it will contribute to our demise....