ALPA reconsiders age 60!

[Dizel8]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
94TH REGULAR EXECUTIVE BOARD MEETING
September 14-15, 2004


SUBJECT
Age 60 Education Campaign

SOURCE
MEA MEC


DELEGATE COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATION

WHEREAS the current financial crisis in the airline industry has
caused tens of thousands of ALPA pilots to experience a dramatic
and permanent reduction in their career earnings through
furloughs, pay cuts, displacements, and reduced promotion and job
opportunities, and

WHEREAS a significant proportion of ALPA's membership has also
experienced an erosion in their projected retirement earnings
through a variety of factors, including the dramatic and
permanent reduction in their career earnings; lower-than-expected
investment returns due to declines in the equity markets, and
increasing pressure on defined benefit plans, including
reductions in benefits, the freezing of future benefit accruals,
or the termination of some of these plans, and

WHEREAS many ALPA pilot groups have not been able to successfully
bargain for defined benefit plans, and

WHEREAS the negotiating environment is not favorable to
addressing these issues in the near future, and

WHEREAS the cost of retiree medical insurance has increased
dramatically over the years, and

WHEREAS airline pilots in the U.S. are required to retire at age
60, and

WHEREAS ALPA policy is to endorse mandatory retirement at age 60,
and

WHEREAS there is a significant gap between the mandatory
retirement age for pilots in the U.S. and the age at which many
pilots are eligible to receive Social Security and Medicare
benefits, and

WHEREAS the Executive Board recently reaffirmed its desire to
obtain necessary changes to the U.S. Medicare and Social Security
laws to make retired airline pilots eligible for Medicare and
full Social Security benefits upon reaching age 60, and

WHEREAS the current White House Administration has not been
amenable to addressing these issues, and

WHEREAS an increasing number of ALPA pilots are concerned that
they may be compelled to work either in other professions or as
pilots outside the U.S. beyond the current U.S. mandatory
retirement age due to a reduction in their career earnings,
retirement earnings, and/or to bridge their income and medical
benefits to Medicare and Social Security, and

WHEREAS an increasing number of ALPA pilots have expressed a
desire to have the mandatory retirement age in the U.S. increased
to enable them to continue to work as a pilots in the U.S to
increase their career earnings, retirement earnings, and/or to
bridge their income and medical benefits to Medicare and Social
Security, and

WHEREAS the Age 60 Rule is a safety rule established by the
Federal Aviation Administration in 1959, and

WHEREAS a change in the Age 60 rule would require a change to
applicable FAA regulations based upon aviation safety, and not
pilot income or benefits, criteria, and

WHEREAS discussions among rank and file U.S. ALPA members
regarding changing the mandatory age raise issues related to the
impact on career earnings, retirement earnings, defined benefit
plan provisions and funding, pilot medical certification
standards, and air safety, and

WHEREAS it is appropriate that Association policy on safety
issues be consistent with the best available scientific
information, and

WHEREAS the establishment of Association policy is driven by the
interests of the rank and file membership, and

WHEREAS arguments both in favor and against maintaining the
current Association policy preserving age 60 as the mandatory
retirement age must be focused on facts rather than emotion or
speculation,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the President is hereby directed to
initiate a thorough communications effort to educate the U.S.
ALPA membership regarding the rationale for the existence of the
Age 60 Rule and the possible implications of increasing the
mandatory retirement age, including the impact on career
earnings, retirement earnings, defined benefit plan provisions
and funding, pilot medical certification standards, and air
safety, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this communications effort shall
include a poll of the U.S. ALPA membership regarding mandatory
retirement age issues, including their views regarding ALPA's Age
60 policy, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the President is also directed to
report on the status of this initiative to the May 2005 Executive
Board.[/font]

 

[chase]

Can anyone else confirm this is in fact from ALPA?

 

[FoxHunter]

Can anyone else confirm this is in fact from ALPA?

Yes, the information is 100% correct.

 

[Mach 80]

Looks like this is a resolution proposal submitted by one airline MEC (MEA) to ALPA, not ALPA itself. Who is MEA?

 

[Dizel8]

Well, the only MEA I know, is Middle East Airlines, but then why the continuing reference to the US and FAA?

 

[FoxHunter]

Looks like this is a resolution proposal submitted by one airline MEC (MEA) to ALPA, not ALPA itself. Who is MEA?

Only takes one to submit an Agenda item.

AGE 60 RESOLUTION PASSES ALPA EXECUTIVE BOARD.


With the support of Duane Woerth, the full Executive Board voted unanimously
to pass a resolution to educate the membership on the age 60 rule and to
poll the membership.

This will be the first time that ALPA has polled the membership on this issue.

 

[surplus1]

Who is MEA?

MEA is ALPA-speak for Midwest airlines, a relatively small DC9 operator.

What's interesting about this resolution is the more than 10 "Whereas's" related to economic issues and the two or three that speak to safety.

If this eventually produces a change in ALPA policy (it would be the 2nd on this item), we'll finally have confirmation that this "rule" has always been an economic issue and really has nothing to do with safety.

Personally, I favor a change and the resolution is welcome, but what irks me is the hypocrisy of attempting to cover an economic issue in a veil of alleged safety concerns for such a long time. Whether we agree or disagree with a change in "the rule", ALPA should have the courage to call a spade a spade instead of hiding behind the safety door.

Safety should never become a political tool. Unfortunately, with respect to this issue, the current policy has violated that tenet for too many years. Congrats to the MEA MEC.

 

[AKAAB]

Did anyone take notice of the particulars on the pilot that just earned his civilian astronaut wings and will be shuttling passengers into space. He was chosen to pilot Spaceship One because he was physically fit and demonstrated his competency to do the job. And, according to reports, he is 63 years old. Funny how he's too old to carry paying passengers at FL370, but fully competent to soar above our homes into space.

I'll take the age 60 retirement without much complaint if I could get SS and Medicare. The government is arbitrarily forcing me out of my profession so my retirement benefits should kick in earlier.

AKAAB
19 years to go....

 

[Bugs]

Ditto what Akaab said.

 

[FDJ2]

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the President is hereby directed to
initiate a thorough communications effort to educate the U.S.
ALPA membership regarding the rationale for the existence of the
Age 60 Rule and the possible implications of increasing the
mandatory retirement age, including the impact on career
earnings, retirement earnings, defined benefit plan provisions
and funding, pilot medical certification standards, and air
safety,


Overall it sounds like an education effort, not a reevaluation.

 

[TonyC]

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the President is hereby directed to
initiate a thorough communications effort to educate the U.S.
ALPA membership regarding the rationale for the existence of the
Age 60 Rule and the possible implications of increasing the
mandatory retirement age, including the impact on career
earnings, retirement earnings, defined benefit plan provisions
and funding, pilot medical certification standards, and air
safety,


Overall it sounds like an education effort, not a reevaluation.

It's both an education effort and a poll. I'm curious as to whether the poll will occur before or after the education effort.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this communications effort shall
include a poll of the U.S. ALPA membership regarding mandatory
retirement age issues, including their views regarding ALPA's Age
60 policy, and

 

[FDJ2]

It's both an education effort and a poll. I'm curious as to whether the poll will occur before or after the education effort.

After would make more sense and I suspect that is when it will happen. At any rate, it doesn't seem like a reevaluation of the age 60 rule. It should also be noted that this resolution passed unanimously, which should suggest that its fairly benign and not a substantive shift in position, since I'm sure that would not have been passed unanimously.

 

[Slim]

It's about time!

The age 60 rule is being challenged by the Professional Pilots Federation (ppf.org), and I believe they have a court date.

I have advocated this change for a while. Before going further, I don't need to retire at 63, 65 or whatever age is ultimately decided upon. I'm a military retiree (National Guard), have a pension from a previous employer and my own retirement funds.

There are two things which bother me about this. First, several ALPA carriers, other than the majors and larger nationals, have no retirement programs at all, other than a 401(k). Some have nothing while pilots retire at 60 and must wait until 62 to collect Social Secuity. It took bankruptcies at UAL, USAirways and threatened bankruptcy at DAL before ALPA looked at this seriously. Why am I not surprised??!!

Second, there are pilots, over 60, flying U.S. passengers to and from the United States on non-U.S. airlines. This shows our government shirking its responsibilities to its own citizens. This has gone on since day 1 of this rule...can anyone say age discrimination? Republican or Democrat...both parties are equally at fault for allowing this to continue. I'll accept being forced out of the cockpit at 60 if my counterparts outside the U.S. are not permitted to fly in U.S. airspace once they pass 60!

It's a first step....

 

[airbus_jas]

Lets see...All those in favor of eliminating the age 60 rule used this rule to get to the top of the pyramid...and now they want to stay there. Pure F'in Greed.

30 years of A scale wages, and you haven't saved enough to bridge the two years to age 62 soc sec?

Too many Harleys, sea planes, speed boats, Porches, water front houses, and personal aircrraft.

Are you one of the many capts I know who are on their third wife and have a two year old baby at age 58? (First wife - a throw away, second two - flight attendants).

This is horse krapp and when the membership is polled, it will get shot down overwhelmingly.

 

[Freight Dog]

Lets see...All those in favor of eliminating the age 60 rule used this rule to get to the top of the pyramid...and now they want to stay there. Pure F'in Greed.

30 years of A scale wages, and you haven't saved enough to bridge the two years to age 62 soc sec?

Too many Harleys, sea planes, speed boats, Porches, water front houses, and personal aircrraft.

Are you one of the many capts I know who are on their third wife and have a two year old baby at age 58? (First wife - a throw away, second two - flight attendants).

This is horse krapp and when the membership is polled, it will get shot down overwhelmingly.

Couldn't have said it better... not to mention that there are tens of thousands of pilots who are furloughed right now...

31 1/2 years left...

 

[FoxHunter]

Lets see...All those in favor of eliminating the age 60 rule used this rule to get to the top of the pyramid...and now they want to stay there. Pure F'in Greed.

30 years of A scale wages, and you haven't saved enough to bridge the two years to age 62 soc sec?

Too many Harleys, sea planes, speed boats, Porches, water front houses, and personal aircrraft.

Are you one of the many capts I know who are on their third wife and have a two year old baby at age 58? (First wife - a throw away, second two - flight attendants).

This is horse krapp and when the membership is polled, it will get shot down overwhelmingly.

With all the former Braniff, Continental, EAL, terminated pensions, threat of termination of pensions, no "A" plan carriers, counties like Canada, Australia having no forced retirement age, the U.K., Europe, Japan changed the age to over 60 I think you can plan on being able to fly past 60.

BTW your response was pure greed, but we all understand this is an economic issue, was never a safety issue.

 

[~~~^~~~]

<deleted>

 

[~~~^~~~]

This is horse krapp and when the membership is polled, it will get shot down overwhelmingly.

I agree with your characterization, but a lot of ALPA's membership now works at "regionals" and they have young enough seniority lists for this not to impact them negatively. These guys have never had retirement, can't expect retirement and if they are like me, they are worried about medical coverage after age 60. The result of the polling might be surprising, thanks to the "non-preferred" members who percieve these issues differently.

What is really not to like about this resolution is that it gives the appearance that ALPA is giving up on the A Plan retirement issue, even at its "preferred" carriers. I think going soft on this issue during a temporary industry downturn is going to permanently set the bar lower.

~~~^~~~

 

[TWA Dude]

Don't forget that the airlines are against extending Age 60. Older pilots are out sick more often plus they're typically at the highest pay scale. Who will the Republican President and Congress listen to: the unions or the airlines?

 

[Superbird]

How would the FAA/ALPA/APA/SWAPA etc. decide on a cut off date for the pilots who are nearing 60/62/65?

Would pilots who have retired recently be allowed to get their seats back?

How many Delta pilots who have recently opt for early retirement actually return?

As mentioned in an earlier post, a lot of furloughed pilots could be on the street even longer, allowing the 60+ pilot to continue earning while the furloughed pilot continues to struggle for a flying job.

Thoughts?