ALPA on Emirates and Etihad

[Green]

What I actually think is interesting is what EK/EY/QR think of Turkish Airlines? They have a better position geographically (where Europe and Asia meet--IST), they are ordering tons of planes of all sizes, have chefs on all of their widebodies, and have NO restrictions of entry into Germany, France, etc. They may also hurt the European carriers (although they are in an Alliance), but may beat the ME airlines at their own game. The fight over there looks interesting from way back here! Have at it!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Disagree with you there. Dubai is perfectly situated for Indians flying to Europe/NA, Far East Asians to Africa, Aussies to Europe, North Americans to Africa, Europeans to Asia/Afica/India, and of course Gulf Residents to anywhere. IST would require some backtracking for quite a few of those groups. Not to mention the IST airport is a mess and Turkish appears to be chronically mis-managed. Don't see much of a threat there.

The reality is that the biggest threat to EK is a lack of slots and local restrictions. The protectionist response shows that many don't have a competitive response. If Europe becomes saturated then they will send more capacity to North America and Asia. Do you think the US will block EK with a pending order for 200+ 777X's in the balance? How many billions does that represent?

The only saving grace for US legacies is that most of the business travelers in the US are tied to a frequent flyer program. The big threat to DAL will be once EK starts flying to the west coast via Asia and the east coast via Europe.

 

[Green]

Based on history street captains is a normal thing at Emirates while screwing their current first officers

Not?

Yes that's true. You need 2,500 hours on type before they upgrade a First Officer. They used to waive that but now they are screwing FO's and making them wait at least 3.5 years before upgrading.

When I joined they said no more DEC's. Then they went and hired about 80 due to a lack of fo's with enough time on type to upgrade. Not completely fair but what is fair in life? How long does it take to upgrade on a 777/330/380 at your airline?

 

[General Lee]

Disagree with you there. Dubai is perfectly situated for Indians flying to Europe/NA, Far East Asians to Africa, Aussies to Europe, North Americans to Africa, Europeans to Asia/Afica/India, and of course Gulf Residents to anywhere. IST would require some backtracking for quite a few of those groups. Not to mention the IST airport is a mess and Turkish appears to be chronically mis-managed. Don't see much of a threat there.

The reality is that the biggest threat to EK is a lack of slots and local restrictions. The protectionist response shows that many don't have a competitive response. If Europe becomes saturated then they will send more capacity to North America and Asia. Do you think the US will block EK with a pending order for 200+ 777X's in the balance? How many billions does that represent?

The only saving grace for US legacies is that most of the business travelers in the US are tied to a frequent flyer program. The big threat to DAL will be once EK starts flying to the west coast via Asia and the east coast via Europe.

I disagree with your disagree. )) Anyway, Turk has a hub closer to Europe, and actually can legally fly to ANYWHERE in Europe, and they do. If you look at their map, they have A321s to almost every large European city, when the ME airlines are still restricted. They also have different sized planes, that can hit every market. EK has the A330 as the smallest plane, and EY and QR have A320s. Yes, FlyDubai is an offshoot of EK and they use 738s, but they really don't go anywhere in Continental Europe. So, Turk has a huge advantage, and they use big planes too to SE Asia and Asia itself, along with many cities all over Africa. They fly flights to Mogidishu, to Dontsk, to Bamako, to Goteborg. They are the ones to watch out for when it comes to European airlines and protecting their own turf, they have NO ROADBLOCKS, whereas the ME airlines do. From IST they also have 777-300s to LAX, ORD, IAH, JFK, IAD (maybe an A330), and maybe MIA also. But for US carriers, will people overfly Europe (to IST) to fly back to Europe (LHR, CDG, etc)? Probably not. But connection traffic to almost everywhere else is a possibility.

As far as EK flying from MXP to JFK, I doubt many other European countries will allow that (protecting their own first), and Italy right now is on the ropes financially, so maybe there is something going on with politics and ME money. You never know....


As far as EK flying from the West Coast to Asia, I don't think that is a certainty. They would have to get the rights, and those particular countries also protect their own (Japan is very careful with HND slots etc), and it's already been done, called Singapore Airlines. They have FANTASTIC service with "Singapore Girls", flying from NRT to LAX, ICN and TPE to SFO, and onward towards SIN. That doesn't seem to bother the US legacies much.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

How much of that competition comes anywhere near EK's product?

You mean like 10 abreast in coach?

 

[sniper]

Yes that's true. You need 2,500 hours on type before they upgrade a First Officer. They used to waive that but now they are screwing FO's and making them wait at least 3.5 years before upgrading.

When I joined they said no more DEC's. Then they went and hired about 80 due to a lack of fo's with enough time on type to upgrade. Not completely fair but what is fair in life? How long does it take to upgrade on a 777/330/380 at your airline?

But I make more on the A320 and it will be around 6 years

Don't forget quality of life.. US versus ME?

 

[sniper]

I was speaking more specifically.

The hiring process is quite thorough. They do a specific test for 'insular xenophobia'; on day three a man with a beard wearing a burka jumps out from behind a door and yells "Boo !". If you reach for the place where you'd normally carry a concealed sidearm ...... You're done

I know people with FAA violations and DUI s working at Emirates.
Failed checkride s and more. I guess it's not that hard and watch Iberia laying off, more street captains for you.

Can you go and complain why you are not getting upgraded ? I don't think so.
You are a slsve to the Arabs my friend

 

[sniper]

All of you American pilots flying for Emirates under the age of 50:

Answer this truthfully

If Delta, United , American , SWA, UPS or FedEx offers you a job, will you say no thanks or jump on it?


Rest my case and screw this argument.
We, in the states will do whatever we have to do to stop those subsidized Airlines with slaves on the ground because we are a democracy and don't like human rights violations.

I hope we don't have to come and babysit you when IRAN starts dropping bombs there.

 

[8sugarsugar]

But if your dad does that in Dubai, does he get 2 years in jail and loses a hand?


Hey, did anyone see this?

Why Delta Pays More Than Emirates for Boeing Planes - TheStreet


Bye Bye---General Lee

Delta buys a lot of those canadian planes with a similar bank in Canada. Just as guilty.

 

[General Lee]

Delta buys a lot of those canadian planes with a similar bank in Canada. Just as guilty.

Oh wait, they probably FORGOT that.......thanks for reminding them. The STREET article says you are WRONG......Read the title again please. Is the UAE a poor nation? That is what the Em IM Bank is supposed to help, poor countries. It's time to cut the rebates for you. No wonder you can order 100 777s at a time, and Boeing LOVES it...... Time to stop and play fair...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[8sugarsugar]

Now i got him all huffy puffy again, mission accomplished, like a cat in a corner being chased with a vacuum cleaner

 

[8sugarsugar]

Oh wait, they probably FORGOT that.......thanks for reminding them. The STREET article says you are WRONG......Read the title again please. Is the UAE a poor nation? That is what the Em IM Bank is supposed to help, poor countries. It's time to cut the rebates for you. No wonder you can order 100 777s at a time, and Boeing LOVES it...... Time to stop and play fair...


Bye Bye---General Lee

wait a minute, did you just call America a poor country when Delta borrows cheap money from the import.export bank of Canada to buy Bombardier products?

 

[General Lee]

wait a minute, did you just call America a poor country when Delta borrows cheap money from the import.export bank of Canada to buy Bombardier products?

It must be, but we all know EK doesn't need a dime from the bank when itself is bankrolled by the UAE Govt, right? You keep evading the question. Does EK need the subsidies? DL doesn't buy all their planes via the Ex Im bank, but EK apparently buys their 100 777s through them? Do they need it?



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Now i got him all huffy puffy again, mission accomplished, like a cat in a corner being chased with a vacuum cleaner

Isn't that cat chasing illegal in Dubai? What would happen to you if you got caught? 2 years in jail?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Varmint]

Isn't that cat chasing illegal in Dubai? What would happen to you if you got caught? 2 years in jail?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Nahhhh. PETA is going to come here and stalk people with their drones.


http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/04/08/peta-plans-to-fly-drones-that-would-stalk-hunters

 

[8sugarsugar]

It must be, but we all know EK doesn't need a dime from the bank when itself is bankrolled by the UAE Govt, right? You keep evading the question. Does EK need the subsidies? DL doesn't buy all their planes via the Ex Im bank, but EK apparently buys their 100 777s through them? Do they need it?



Bye Bye---General Lee

no, EK doesn't need the subsidies, but is it EK's fault that America is giving them a break? No

Write to your politicians.

And it is the other way around, UAE govt is bankrolled by Emirates Airline.

 

[Green]

But I make more on the A320 and it will be around 6 years

Don't forget quality of life.. US versus ME?

Actually you don't. I posted a breakdown of the pay but just edited it for obvious irs reasons. When you factor in the tax breaks and add the allowances an EK captain makes more than you. But who gives a sh#t? Do you hang out with your buddies and argue who makes more money? Pretty pathetic dude. We've been hiring a lot of Qantas pilots lately because they don't see a future there. Just flew with a guy whose father retired a few years ago. Said the senior ones are still making 350-400k/year. EK pay must be decent to leave that, even if it's a shrinking company.


You asked if EK pilots would go to UAL/AMR/DAl/Fedex if offered a job. I have a seniority number at one of those carriers and I'm debating whether to take the recall. Tough choice. Living in the US is a big plus. The paycut, less vacation, and dealing with US aviation again is a big minus. But the job protections over the next 25-30 years has me leaning towards going back. However if it was as a newhire at one of those airlines I probably wouldn't. I would more likely just head to Asia after burning out on the middle east. Contract flying can be fun. The only job i would leave EK for without question would be fedex/ups.

You guys sound a bit pathetic with this my job is better than yours bs. We are all in the same industry trying to make a living. WTF? Get a life.

General of course EK doesn't need the subsidies. But they would be idiotic not to take them. If your bank called you and offered to modify your interest rate to 0% would you say "no thanks?"

 

[Dumb Pilot]

All of you American pilots flying for Emirates under the age of 50:

Answer this truthfully

If Delta, United , American , SWA, UPS or FedEx offers you a job, will you say no thanks or jump on it?.

I know this is an emotional topic and you are just making a broad statement, but it is not impossible for you to envision somebody happy working abroad with no interest to start at the bottom of the pile? I know many people that have cero interest in starting again, I'm 48 and I feel that after three times in the majors marry go round, the ship sailed. I mean you can envision people that are happy working abroad can't you?

 

[Green]

I disagree with your disagree. )) Anyway, Turk has a hub closer to Europe, and actually can legally fly to ANYWHERE in Europe, and they do. If you look at their map, they have A321s to almost every large European city, when the ME airlines are still restricted.

Bye Bye---General Lee

It's a waste of time to argue on the internet so I will make it brief. Why don't you see analysts writing articles talking about Turkish reshaping modern aviation? It's not gonna happen man. EK doesn't fly 321's because they don't want them. 787's were considered too small to purchase. Turkish fleet pales in comparison. EK flies 777 300ER's on 40 minute sectors, and they are full. Everywhere they send them the planes are full. The only thing slowing EK at the moment is a lack of airplanes. Tim Clark said he would buy another 30 380's tomorrow if he had enough gate space for them.

Dubai just passed CDG as the second busiest airport in the world for international traffic. They are forecast to pass LHR and be number 1 by 2015. That is unless IST jumps from #17 to #1...lol

Check the EK route map. If EK isn't there already they are coming. I wish it was a US airline flying 112 non stop flights to the UK each week using 77W's and 380's. Not trying to be an EK cheerleader just telling it like it is. Hopefully somebody can slow them down.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Its hopeless Mr. Green, I was first stating facts and correcting Delta guy's "Facts" and he turns it into a "which job is better" match when you prove him wrong time and time again. He lives in a hole.

All EK pilots agree Emirates plays an unfair game in regards to labor costs for unskilled workers.

It is quite clear the threat Emirates now poses to legacies in regards to widebody international.

I could personally care less if Emirates flies from Europe direct to America. I was just relaying the news and I get attacked for it.

Its just a job to me. Flying DXB-MXP-JFK-MXP-DXB for a 6 day trip just means I will be away from my family longer.

Love it or hate it, Emirates is a behemoth. Cities like Detroit are begging them for service.

Who really should feel threatened is FedEx and UPS, not Delta. All that junk from china and africa goes through Dubai, than to America, Aussie, Europe instead of on Fed Ex.

EK skycargo just started service to O'hare on their 777's from copenhagen.

EK Skycargo is soon to become the world's biggest "cargo airline" in terms of international kg per mile. The cargo in the belly is where the money is made...the premium seats on top is just GRAAAAVVVY.

 

[dicko]

Can you go and complain why you are not getting upgraded ? I don't think so. You are a slsve to the Arabs my friend

What a maroon. I live in Atlanta and i've been in the left seat for over eight years. :laugh: