ALPA National Compensation and Expense Allowance

[FoxHunter]

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/Documents/ALPA%20Officer%20Compensation.htm

 

[PHXFLYR]

Been thinking of crafting some sort of resolution and presenting it at our next LEC meeting that establishes new payscales for ALPA president and executive vice president positions. Something to the effect of whatever you can hold at your airline plus 15% and that's it. PERIOD . Nothing more. I mean if we have to take it on the chin with paycuts, bankruptcies, loss of pensions, possible liquidations etc, I think the time is way overdue for Worth and his minions to join us. Whadda ya'll
think?


Standing by for Incoming!!

PHXFLYR

 

[AA717driver]

$400,000 a year for what that jerkoff does? Send him back to the line and see how he likes it. Better yet, make him go fly RJ's to get a feel for his constituents! Turd.TC

 

[TonyC]

Been thinking of crafting some sort of resolution and presenting it at our next LEC meeting that establishes new payscales for ALPA president and executive vice president positions. Something to the effect of whatever you can hold at your airline plus 15% and that's it. PERIOD . Nothing more. I mean if we have to take it on the chin with paycuts, bankruptcies, loss of pensions, possible liquidations etc, I think the time is way overdue for Worth and his minions to join us. Whadda ya'll
think?


Standing by for Incoming!!

PHXFLYR

It's a thankless job, and he gets criticism from people who won't even bother to spell his name correctly. Definitely overpaid, I'd say.


::: shakin' head :::


Read carefully before you get bent all out of shape:

Presidential compensation based upon the average book rates of the three highest paying Captain rates of the three highest paying ALPA carriers . . . To be recalculated upon any change in the Captain hourly rates or maximum contract hours for the three highest paying ALPA carriers .

He's already taken pay cuts.

 

[AA717driver]

Herndon is a Mecca for pilots that don't want to fly. People backstab and screw their buddies to get a chance to work there. Failing that, they just try to get on the MEC and milk UBS.

Sorry, but I've got wAAy too much experience with ALPA to cry Woerthless, et al any tears.TC

 

[PHXFLYR]

Tony C,


If indeed Worthe and Co. did take paycuts, they are still way overpaid for what they do and what they have accomplished.


PHXFLYR

 

[FoxHunter]

Tony C,


If indeed Worthe and Co. did take paycuts, they are still way overpaid for what they do and what they have accomplished.


PHXFLYR

That is a big if.In any case I understand if he completes his term his ALPA pension is $149,000 per year. There also appears to be a $4,500 housing, $1,500 Meals, $!,500 Travel & Incidental, for a total Monthly allowance of $7,500. Not bad. Plus a new Lincoln LS or similar every two years, and all costs, maintenance, insurance, tags, vehicle related taxes. Oh yes fuel expense related to business use. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Too bad he may not serve a full 12 years and get the max pension of 60% of his pay, or $223,636.

 

[PHXFLYR]

That's my beef. Bad enough the excessive salary, but the perks are way out of line,especially when you consider what the average line pilot has gone thru the last 20 yrs. You would think that he could afford his own perks just on salary
alone. I say whatever you could hold at your airline plus 15% should be the new salary structure for all ALPA sr level positions. Not a nickle more.

PHXFLYR
By the way, who did you fly the VC10 for? That was one classy looking airplane
Saw them fly over my house when I was a kid growing up as they headed into JFK. Neat airplane....did it fly as well as it looked?

 

[thruthemurk]

He's already taken pay cuts.

Tony,

Maybe you wouldn't be quite so impressed if you knew that he used to be paid the average of the top SIX carriers. After 911 when he saw his pay going down, he engineered this switch to the top three carriers. The top six used to be somewhat fair because its collective memberships were over 80% of ALPA.

Now that there are dozens and dozens of carriers, and the top three have laid off so many that less than 30% of ALPA's members reside at these carriers. In addition he gets 26% above the highest paid of them!! Not to mention all of the gravy, housing, free car etc.

I submit that this is EXACTLY the problem. I think the president should be paid inline with payscales he signs for the LOWEST paid ALPA pilots, and maybe this so called union would no longer blindly endorse the splitting of the trade and the destruction of the career we once knew.

NOt impressed with woerthless or his predecessor. Haven't seen a real unionist at ALPA in 30 years. This should be a TRADE UNION - not a country club association for the tassled loafer set.

 

[miles otoole]

Guy gets paid more than THE president.

 

[FoxHunter]

That's my beef. Bad enough the excessive salary, but the perks are way out of line,especially when you consider what the average line pilot has gone thru the last 20 yrs. You would think that he could afford his own perks just on salary
alone. I say whatever you could hold at your airline plus 15% should be the new salary structure for all ALPA sr level positions. Not a nickle more.

PHXFLYR
By the way, who did you fly the VC10 for? That was one classy looking airplane
Saw them fly over my house when I was a kid growing up as they headed into JFK. Neat airplane....did it fly as well as it looked?

I flew the SVC10 as a F/O for EAA, East African Airways, Nairobi, Kenya. At the time it was the airline for Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania. The EAA SVC10s are now RAF Tankers.

They flew better than they looked. Lots of power, F/E had a set of throttles, quiet, tail fuel, and tail fuel management by F/E, very easy to fly.

 

[FoxHunter]

Read carefully before you get bent all out of shape:

He's already taken pay cuts.

Tony,

DAL has not taken a cut yet. In any case, what are "book rates"? I suspect that any cuts have come are in a LOA form, with the original contract rates still in place. I'll be willing to bet a couple of beers that DW has not seen a reduction.

 

[TonyC]

Tony,

DAL has not taken a cut yet.

Common misperception.

While their hourly rates have not changed, the CAPs have.

The compensation is based on hourly rates AND maximum contract hours at the top 3, and Delta's maximum contract hours has gone down.


Now, I'm not sure what the language is that triggered the lower CAPS - - I might assume that it's part of the furlough section. Perhaps there's some semantics that lower the CAP without changing the "Maximum Contract Hours." Clearly, though, the INTENT of the compansation formula for the ALPA President is that when the Top Three take pay cuts, he does. Delta has taken a pay cut. United certainly did. Other than us, who hasn't?!?!? (ALPA carriers, here.) The INTENT, then, is that Duane Woerth should have seen a reduction in his compensation. What actually happened, I don't know.

What I've really missed, though, is the purpose of this thread. All you did was post a link. Was there a point you were trying to make, or were you just trying to stir a pot and see what bubbled out?

 

[TonyC]

OH, and here's a thought.


They obviously weren't thinking about FedEx being in the top three when they crafted this language, since we don't have a Maximum Contract Hours.

 

[TonyC]

What I've really missed, though, is the purpose of this thread. All you did was post a link. Was there a point you were trying to make, or were you just trying to stir a pot and see what bubbled out?

Nevermind. Capt C, right?

 

[FoxHunter]

What I've really missed, though, is the purpose of this thread. All you did was post a link. Was there a point you were trying to make, or were you just trying to stir a pot and see what bubbled out?

Tony, you of all people asking that question. I've been an ALPA member off and on for 35 years and never realized how attractive ALPA National Office was. Serve 8 years and get a pension that is far greater than any ALPA pilot received before things in the industry went south. It sure looks like the National Officers have been far more sucessful maintaining their living standard as opposed to the dues paying line pilot. I guess my biggest problem is the rather secret nature of the compensation package. We always get a lot of propaganda in mailings, message lines, news releases, and I never recall hearing anything in regard to National Officer compensation. I would also be interested in the level of compensation of our own MEC Officers. We know how, and how much all line pilots are paid, but how about our leaders. I realize we have no right to ask. Just shut up and pay your dues.

 

[TonyC]

I realize we have no right to ask. Just shut up and pay your dues.

That's a downright lie, and you know it.


There's nothing secretive about it. If you want to become involved, go for it. If you don't like what's being done, climb in the trenches and grab a shovel.

That hasn't been your style though. It's far easier to stand beside the trench and kick dirt in.


Shhheeeesh - - I can't believe I went that long without catching on to who you are - - I see you're trying to stir the same pot on the AOL board. Don't you have a hobby that you enjoy?

 

[FoxHunter]

Tony, if ALPA Officer compensation is common knowledge you shouldn't be upset about it being posted. I understand the "Party Line" is the only line for some. Your a true believer in ALPA, I am not.

 

[TonyC]

Tony, if ALPA Officer compensation is common knowledge you shouldn't be upset about it being posted. I understand the "Party Line" is the only line for some. Your a true believer in ALPA, I am not.

I don't know if it's "common knowledge," but I know it's not a secret. Furthermore, I know we have a right to ask, and I've never been told to shut up and just pay my dues. That characterization is slander.


I'm not upset that you posted the link. It's no big deal. I wouldn't be upset if you posted a link to the Declaration of Independence or the home-page for Computer Nerds Anonymous. I asked you, and you didn't answer, what the purpose of this thread is. What point were you trying to make, or were you trying to make any point at all?


I'm glad the guy makes a bunch of money. I hope it entices good people to apply for the job and serve.


(By the way, I looked back and saw you signed one post "George." Please take no personal offense that I didn't make the connection then. You're right, I of all people should have known. )

 

[FoxHunter]

I asked you, and you didn't answer, what the purpose of this thread is. What point were you trying to make, or were you trying to make any point at all?


I'm glad the guy makes a bunch of money. I hope it entices good people to apply for the job and serve.

Tony, you are correct, I'm stirring the pot, actually trying to provoke discussion. I must admit that I was suprised at the package, especially the extras and the pension. I agree that it takes good money to get good people to apply, but are we getting our moneys worth. Remember he is the guy that said no way to guns in the cockpit. He also led the fight against the change of the age 60 rule in Congress. If that had changed then we would have avoided some of the pension funding crises we now have. I think you will see a change in the ALPA position on the issue, but it will be too late to help stop the termination of the UAL pensions, far too late for USAIR, and may come in time to help DAL. Interesting times we live in.

BTW I'm trying to be quiet. This is post #100 for me. Since you have 1500+, and you joined later than me I know I can never keep up with you.

 

[AA717driver]

We have to realize that Tony C and many of us are looking at this from different viewpoints. His experience and mine are vastly different.TC

 

[TonyC]

Tony, you are correct, I'm stirring the pot, actually trying to provoke discussion. I must admit that I was suprised at the package, especially the extras and the pension. I agree that it takes good money to get good people to apply, but are we getting our moneys worth. Remember he is the guy that said no way to guns in the cockpit. He also led the fight against the change of the age 60 rule in Congress. If that had changed then we would have avoided some of the pension funding crises we now have. I think you will see a change in the ALPA position on the issue, but it will be too late to help stop the termination of the UAL pensions, far too late for USAIR, and may come in time to help DAL. Interesting times we live in.

BTW I'm trying to be quiet. This is post #100 for me. Since you have 1500+, and you joined later than me I know I can never keep up with you.

You've done a lot less pot-stirrin' over here than on AOL. While you reminded me of you, I never made the connection until I saw identical posts.


Anyway... I respect your experience, but you know I don't always agree with you. I disagreed with Woerth's position on guns in the cockpit. I agreed with his position on Age 60. I'm not bothered by the fact that I don't always agree with him, just as I'm not bothered by the fact that I don't always agree with the President of the U.S. If the man in either office agreed with MY opinions 100% of the time, we'd all need to be scared!


Did you attend the last rally where Woerth spoke? If you didn't, I recommend you hook up to the ALPA website and watch the video. He had some interesting things to say about pension funding.


As for the post count... it's a good thing they don't count on AOL !

 

[surplus1]

I'm glad the guy makes a bunch of money. I hope it entices good people to apply for the job and serve.

That sounds very much like the logic used by management at places like AA and DAL, yet their actions to "attract and keep" good people were met with an uproar of indignation. Do we have a double standard; again?

The compensation packages we have for "National Officers" are there because thy see themselves as "executives", not simply pilots and by the way that's exactly how they behave. Apparently we pilots agree with them.

I don't really begrudge them their compensation but when the President of ALPA has a salary that is higher than the President of the United States it is bound to raise some questions about where his true interest really lies.

It's also kind of interesting that right after he agreed to relinquish just about everything the U pilots had, the MEC Chairman managed to get himself a "national office" that virtually guarantees he will not have to share their pain.

I'm somewhat surprised that we haven't provided our Prez with an executive jet and a flight crew or at the very least a hefty block of time at a fractional. After all there's no telling where he might have to be at a moments notice and all those security procedures at the airport are getting to be a real pain. Oh well, at least he doesn't have to fly "coach" or ride in a jumpseat.

 

[TonyC]

That sounds very much like the logic used by management at places like AA and DAL, yet their actions to "attract and keep" good people were met with an uproar of indignation. Do we have a double standard; again?

As long as management is doing their job, it's excellent logic. The uproar you have heard lately arises when managment does a lousy job, gets paid for a good job, then cuts and runs with even more free money. "Double standard" in this case is a "red herring." I can't speak to all companies, but I can speak to my own. I'm glad Fred Smith gets paid mucho bucks. I'm glad he's made this company the success that it continues to be every day.

The compensation packages we have for "National Officers" are there because thy see themselves as "executives", not simply pilots and by the way that's exactly how they behave. Apparently we pilots agree with them.

We need leadership, we need a president that acts like an executive (last time I looked, the definitions were quite compatible). Again, I'm not unhappy that he sees himself as an executuve - - I'm quite pleased. Why does that bother you?

I don't really begrudge them their compensation but when the President of ALPA has a salary that is higher than the President of the United States it is bound to raise some questions about where his true interest really lies.

What question does it raise? Maybe we need to pay the President of the United States more? Or does his portion of that fractional unit based at Andrews AFB count?

I'm somewhat surprised that we haven't provided our Prez with an executive jet and a flight crew or at the very least a hefty block of time at a fractional. After all there's no telling where he might have to be at a moments notice and all those security procedures at the airport are getting to be a real pain. Oh well, at least he doesn't have to fly "coach" or ride in a jumpseat.

That's a great idea - - I think I'll propose it at my next LEC meeting.