ALPA G0 jEt Update

J

jjetpilot

Never got to STL on the 8th. What did Duane Woerth say in summary. The status of the grievance filed on behalf of the Trans States pilots? Don't list it here......you can PM me........


Thanks in advance.........
 

millhouse21

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You can PM me too. Why is it so quiet RE: the meeting?

Thanks
 

fuelflow

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It's quiet because Duane Woerth finally told the TSA pilot group the truth that Mr. Miranda has suppressed for so long - that they don't have a case and will lose any litigation in court. The only way that TSA will do the flying is if they bribe management with Mesa wages (another ALPA negotiated contract). Too bad nobody bothered looking at scope when TSA did that 2 year contract extension.

It's sad that the TSA MEC would actually accept a payscale that neither the GJ nor the TSA pilots would accept.

This is just another case of how the race to the bottom is sometimes perpetuated by ALPA.
 

tgz2

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People talk all the time about compensation...work rules (which are important...don't get me wrong), vacation, per diem...yada yada yada. But to me the most important thing in a contract is scope...case in point. Really sucks for the TSA guys/gals.
 
2

210FR8DOG

fuelflow said:
It's quiet because Duane Woerth finally told the TSA pilot group the truth that Mr. Miranda has suppressed for so long - that they don't have a case and will lose any litigation in court. The only way that TSA will do the flying is if they bribe management with Mesa wages (another ALPA negotiated contract). Too bad nobody bothered looking at scope when TSA did that 2 year contract extension.

It's sad that the TSA MEC would actually accept a payscale that neither the GJ nor the TSA pilots would accept.

This is just another case of how the race to the bottom is sometimes perpetuated by ALPA.
It's your OPINION that we will lose any litigation in court. Scope is covered in section 1 of our contract. There has just been an ill-contrived, evil spin put on it. Everyone knows what it says and what it means.

Your second paragraph makes no sense at all. Our current contract is industry average. Not great, but not the worst. GJ pilots will obviously accept whatever management decides to hand them. I've challenged people on these boards to show the "great" terms of the new contract and pay scale at GJs and no one has produced anything at all. What I saw on the originaly flyers last fall was a joke.

This is actually just another case of how the race to the bottom is sometimes perpetuated by a bunch of classless d!cks with SNJ sydrome who play right into managements hands by going to work for an alter-ego, textbook whipsaw operation. I'm assuming you work there since you vehemently defend all of GJs actions. Suck my b@lls.
 

FreedomAList

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ALPA (DW in particular) screws up EVERY time they sign off on a contract that dosen't prevent alter-egos. Remember, one of the main reasons that regionals play with ALPA is because of their vaunted "EXPERIENCE".

ALPA: "Let's just hope every pilot in North America won't go work at an airline we don't like" is not a strategy, it's institutional suicide. It's incredibly naive, has been demonstrated repeatedly to not work (even in true scab situations), and has never, EVER stopped an alter-ego.

Make like the osterich, put your head in the sand "strategy"?. Alter-ego's CAN be prevented with scope. ALPA knows (or should, if they're worth what they extort from their membership) this. But they don't preach it until its far too late.

F ALPA. I'm not happy about *************************s, but I wish pilots would realize that while unions may be necessary, ALPA is a disaster for regional pilots.
 

millhouse21

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It really pains me to say it but I think this guy might actually have a point. Was DW actually listening to himself when he addressed our pilot rally a few months ago?



FreedomAList said:
ALPA (DW in particular) screws up EVERY time they sign off on a contract that dosen't prevent alter-egos. Remember, one of the main reasons that regionals play with ALPA is because of their vaunted "EXPERIENCE".

ALPA: "Let's just hope every pilot in North America won't go work at an airline we don't like" is not a strategy, it's institutional suicide. It's incredibly naive, has been demonstrated repeatedly to not work (even in true scab situations), and has never, EVER stopped an alter-ego.

Make like the osterich, put your head in the sand "strategy"?. Alter-ego's CAN be prevented with scope. ALPA knows (or should, if they're worth what they extort from their membership) this. But they don't preach it until its far too late.

F ALPA. I'm not happy about *************************s, but I wish pilots would realize that while unions may be necessary, ALPA is a disaster for regional pilots.
 

fuelflow

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210FR8DOG said:
It's your OPINION that we will lose any litigation in court. Scope is covered in section 1 of our contract. There has just been an ill-contrived, evil spin put on it. Everyone knows what it says and what it means.

Your second paragraph makes no sense at all. Our current contract is industry average. Not great, but not the worst. GJ pilots will obviously accept whatever management decides to hand them. I've challenged people on these boards to show the "great" terms of the new contract and pay scale at GJs and no one has produced anything at all. What I saw on the originaly flyers last fall was a joke.

This is actually just another case of how the race to the bottom is sometimes perpetuated by a bunch of classless d!cks with SNJ sydrome who play right into managements hands by going to work for an alter-ego, textbook whipsaw operation. I'm assuming you work there since you vehemently defend all of GJs actions. Suck my b@lls.
You're right that it is my OPINION that ALPA won't win in court. It just so happens that ALPA national shares that opinion. We've said it all along, but some won't listen. As far as the GJ pilot contract goes, ask the guys negotiating the CBA. So far, it looks pretty good (12 days off for lineholders for example).

I honestly don't care who does the flying, as long as it is done for a fair and equitable wage.
 

gobigred1

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FreedomAList said:
ALPA (DW in particular) screws up EVERY time they sign off on a contract that dosen't prevent alter-egos. Remember, one of the main reasons that regionals play with ALPA is because of their vaunted "EXPERIENCE".

ALPA: "Let's just hope every pilot in North America won't go work at an airline we don't like" is not a strategy, it's institutional suicide. It's incredibly naive, has been demonstrated repeatedly to not work (even in true scab situations), and has never, EVER stopped an alter-ego.

Make like the osterich, put your head in the sand "strategy"?. Alter-ego's CAN be prevented with scope. ALPA knows (or should, if they're worth what they extort from their membership) this. But they don't preach it until its far too late.

F ALPA. I'm not happy about *************************s, but I wish pilots would realize that while unions may be necessary, ALPA is a disaster for regional pilots.

Amen brother! Nail on head!!
 

Lear70

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fuelflow said:
You're right that it is my OPINION that ALPA won't win in court. It just so happens that ALPA national shares that opinion. We've said it all along, but some won't listen. As far as the GJ pilot contract goes, ask the guys negotiating the CBA. So far, it looks pretty good (12 days off for lineholders for example).

I honestly don't care who does the flying, as long as it is done for a fair and equitable wage.
If, by that, you mean that you're going to work for G0 Jets, better hope you're not trying to jumpseat/commute to work on any aircraft I'm commanding.

ALPA National is "Woerthless".
 

SkyBoy1981

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fuelflow said:
So far, it looks pretty good (12 days off for lineholders for example).
Well woopdee doo....our contract has 12 days off for reserves. I had 16 off this month as a lineholder.
 

Bako Cap

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Will "single carrier" issues will be nonexistant if **************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ********************************************** ********************************************* ********************************************* *********************************************** *******s elect teamsters?

http://www.teamsterslocal618.org/news-and-events.html
 

flyer172r

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fuelflow said:
I honestly don't care who does the flying, as long as it is done for a fair and equitable wage.
If you truly don't care who does the flying, then you wouldn't object to that flying being done by Trans States pilots, on one seniority list.
 

theo

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fuelflow said:
You're right that it is my OPINION that ALPA won't win in court. It just so happens that ALPA national shares that opinion. We've said it all along, but some won't listen. As far as the GJ pilot contract goes, ask the guys negotiating the CBA. So far, it looks pretty good (12 days off for lineholders for example).

I honestly don't care who does the flying, as long as it is done for a fair and equitable wage.
Why do you say ALPA national shares that opinion. Did they take a position on this issue like that? What proof do you have to back this up?
 

FreedomAList

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theo said:
Why do you say ALPA national shares that opinion. Did they take a position on this issue like that? What proof do you have to back this up?
Their silence speaks volumes. DW's public appearances on this issue have stressed pilot unity and anti-g 0 jets rhetoric. What you don't hear is why they think this is illegal . . . and why they'll win in court. I think it's because they know any entity with enough $$$ can start an airline, unless there is specific scope preventing said entity from starting it. That scope, if it exists, has yet to be trumpeted by anyone.

ERGO, no scope for this situation. Who's fault is that?

Personally, I think they're sowing maximum discord and angst, because it's all they can come up with, and they have to justify all those millions in dues they collect by doing something . . . anything . . . .
 

suupah

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"ALPA: "Let's just hope every pilot in North America won't go work at an airline we don't like" is not a strategy, it's institutional suicide. It's incredibly naive, has been demonstrated repeatedly to not work (even in true scab situations), and has never, EVER stopped an alter-ego. "

as long as there are a ton instructors out there making 10k ayear, there will be plenty of people waiting to fly a jet for 18k/year.
 

Empennage

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Bako Cap said:
Will "single carrier" issues will be nonexistant if **************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ********************************************** ********************************************* ********************************************* *********************************************** *******s elect teamsters?

http://www.teamsterslocal618.org/news-and-events.html
No. Single Carrier may still be won.
 

flyer172r

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FreedomAList said:
Their silence speaks volumes. DW's public appearances on this issue have stressed pilot unity and anti-g 0 jets rhetoric. What you don't hear is why they think this is illegal . . . and why they'll win in court. I think it's because they know any entity with enough $$$ can start an airline, unless there is specific scope preventing said entity from starting it. That scope, if it exists, has yet to be trumpeted by anyone.

ERGO, no scope for this situation. Who's fault is that?

Personally, I think they're sowing maximum discord and angst, because it's all they can come up with, and they have to justify all those millions in dues they collect by doing something . . . anything . . . .
Or possibly they're not stating why they think it's illegal so that they don't give away possible strategies for a court battle.
 

redbook

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flyer172r said:
Or possibly they're not stating why they think it's illegal so that they don't give away possible strategies for a court battle.
whether or not the court case is winnable is moot. (I don't think it is winnable, scope language is weak) The situation will be won, due to the unity of tsa pilots, the support of the national union and the rest of the industry. TSA management is well aware of the fact that just because we didn't have adequate protections in our last contract does not mean we won't get them in the next one. The situation can work itself out here and now, or a battle can be started that drags on through contract negotiations. The latter is not a situation tsa management wants.
 

millhouse21

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Empennage said:
No. Single Carrier may still be won.
Could you elaborate on this "Single Carrier" item please?
 
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