ALPA dues Q

[PCL_128]

Have you seen Spirit's concessionary contract that we struck for?

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
— Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

 

[boomlrd]

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
— Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You got your own problems, ALPA screwed you boys over as well. You get to keep paying ALPA dues for 2 more years after they lead you guys to believe that Gary Kelly would give you a better deal if you declined the first. So in a way Air Tran has a "concessionary" contract as well, for a couple more years at least.

 

[PCL_128]

You got your own problems, ALPA screwed you boys over as well.

I was screwed by a lot of people. By SWAPA. By Gary Kelly. By other SWA managers. By 85% of my fellow pilots. But no, not by ALPA.

So in a way Air Tran has a "concessionary" contract as well, for a couple more years at least.

That word still doesn't mean what you think it does, apparently.

 

[boomlrd]

Pinacle_128, Do you get paid directly from ALPA to spout this propaganda?

 

[Dan Roman]

Pinacle_128, Do you get paid directly from ALPA to spout this propaganda?

OK I'll spell it out for you. Concessionary means taking a reduction in benefits or pay. You work at Spirit. thanks to ALPA your pay went up. If it wasn't for ALPA, you would be making less. You, meaning Spirit, are a newbe to this industry. ALPA has a long history of dealing with every kind of attack to the Airline Pilot profession imaginable, not the least has been upstart airlines staffed with pilots willing to work for less just to help their airlines grow. Fair enough, we all have a right to work for any airline we choose (as long it's not crossing a picket line), but to slam the one entity that has done more over time to improve the lot of Airline Pilots and done more to protect the profession during difficult times (yes I said that, if all airlines were non union these last 10 years we would all be making a LOT less) is almost pathologically ignorant and self absorbed.

In other words YOU went to work for an airline that underpays it's pilots. ALPA supported your pilot group in attempt to make things better. You benefited immensely from ALPA's resources AND the intangible support of your fellow ALPA pilots. You are welcome.

 

[Dan Roman]

Pinacle_128, Do you get paid directly from ALPA to spout this propaganda?

It sounds like you are trying to make a dig at PCL by referencing Pinacle??
Care to list the stellar airlines you have worked for that entitles you to disparage someones else's choices?

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm o.k. with that because I believe in supporting the efforts of the smaller pilot groups to get a better contract.

Somehow I don't think he appreciates that.

 

[boomlrd]

You both have no idea what we struck for at Spirit, we do make less than we used to and work more to make the same, that is concessionary! I have the W2 to prove it! We lost all premium pay, that's right, we get straight pay for working on a day off or more than our line! I do not appreciate the efforts of ALPA, raising the retirement age, dues, representing the interests of Delta and United while walking all over the little guy. Spirit first year pay went down by $2 in first year pay!!! That is concessionary! I have both contracts if you are interested in them. Our health care doubled in price and goes up 7% per year! It was a locked in rate, concessionary! Reserve line holders can be moved around up to 12 hours, that was not in the previous contract. Reserve line holders have 3 hours to depart now, it used to be 3 hours to show. Our 401k match is still 8%. I could go on and on, but since you seem to know so much more about our contract than a pilot actually working here and walking the picket line, I will let you judge. Oh yea, you will claim our pay went up, but why is my W2 less? It's called line averaging. BTW, we struck for ALPA, and the socialists that want everyone to make the same and no more than 72 hours a month, except for our MEC members which drop trips pay protected with our dues enabling some of them to achieve over 150 hours a month! Yes that really does happen here at Spirit, so until you actually know what goes on here, leave it to those who actually work here.

 

[PCL_128]

First, I did walk your picket lines. And it wasn't just me, either. You had ALPA pilots from all over this country, including from airlines like Delta and United that you criticize, walking your picket lines. ALPA pilots backed you 110%.

As far as the few areas that you specify, no contract is ever going to have everything in your favor. You're always going to have to give management a few items so they can save face when they give you a CBA that is a radical improvement. And whether you want to admit it or not, your new CBA was a radical improvement over your previous agreement. Single items may not be what you wanted, but the overall deal was much better than your previous deal.

As far as the premium pay, you may want to ask your fellow pilots why they're picking up open time at straight pay instead of refusing to do so and forcing management into a corner to give you back your premium pay.

 

[boomlrd]

First, I did walk your picket lines. And it wasn't just me, either. You had ALPA pilots from all over this country, including from airlines like Delta and United that you criticize, walking your picket lines. ALPA pilots backed you 110%.

As far as the few areas that you specify, no contract is ever going to have everything in your favor. You're always going to have to give management a few items so they can save face when they give you a CBA that is a radical improvement. And whether you want to admit it or not, your new CBA was a radical improvement over your previous agreement. Single items may not be what you wanted, but the overall deal was much better than your previous deal.

As far as the premium pay, you may want to ask your fellow pilots why they're picking up open time at straight pay instead of refusing to do so and forcing management into a corner to give you back your premium pay.

You seem to know more about our contract, so tell me what radical improvement? I keep a copy of both contracts, there were more givebacks, not "pattern bargaining". We gave back premium pay because our negotiators do not like overtime. We struck to show Airtran management how powerful ALPA is, then you guys got bought. btw, we still get less pay than non-union JB pilots on Embraers.