ALPA dues at work....protecting itself!

[BeCareful!]

Fellow pilot,

We would prefer to adopt a softer tone with regard to the following item, however the facts are the facts. In perhaps what may be the very best example to date that ALPA will go to any lengths to deny the pilots a say in their own future, with just 6 days remaining until the voting closes, ALPA has petitioned the NMB to exclude a large number of pilots from the upcoming vote. The pilots affected included J4J pilots who have already been recalled some time ago and will be on the property before the end of voting.
ALPA's submission is in stark contrast to USAPA's filing today. ALPA is arguing that everybody who was working for another Carrier as of the November 13, 2007 cutoff date should be deemed ineligible to vote. This includes Pilots on leave and J4J pilots. ALPA makes this argument despite the fact that some J4J pilots have already been recalled and 44 more are coming back on Monday. This is a blatant attempt to disenfranchise East Pilots.
Please contrast this with USAPA's submission in which we vigorously defend these Pilots’ right to vote.
The obvious conclusion - if ALPA can't convince you, through fear, innuendo and misrepresentation to vote for them, they will simply try to keep you from voting at all.
Please carefully read the attached documents, or click here and read the first three NMB documents. We will let you draw your own conclusions as to which union fights for the rights of the pilots.

USAPA, built by US Airways pilots, for US Airways pilots


(authentic USAPA communication - click here to confirm)

 

[outtahere]

Boy you Usapa guys are really on the wrong path. I used to jumpseat on Usair every week, and all of the guys were great, why has it come to this? You all are starting to act like Delta pilots!!!!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

More of your ALPA dues at work

This is why I'm voting USAPA! (from USAPA Email)


>>Finally, we note that the ALPA MEC meeting is being held at the at the Mandarin Oriental, Washington DC, described as one of the, “Top 100 Hotels of the World." Following are some of the descriptions of this hotel from their web site: "Quite simply we offer guests a new level of luxury." "Our elegant rooms and suites offer wonderful views. Our restaurant, CityZen, is under the guidance of Eric Ziebold, one of America’s ‘best new chefs’. Our spa facilities have earned one of the highest accolades in the region. Guests enjoy wonderful views over the stately city sights and waterfront. At Mandarin Oriental, Washington DC, we pride ourselves on providing a level of luxury that is unique in the American capital... grandeur that greets our hotel guests at every turn." Rooms with an airline discount run about $300/night. For those interested in learning more about the manner in which ALPA spends your dues dollars, click here to visit the Mandarin Oriental's web site. The hotel offers no shuttle service so those pilots wishing to attend must find their own way.
Contrast this with the way USAPA does business. As mandated by the USAPA Constitution, the first USAPA Board of Pilot Reps meeting will be held in CLT at the same hotel used by the crews, The Sterling Inn. Rooms go for about $44/night, with free shuttle service to and from the airport for those pilots wishing to attend. We could not contrast the difference between USAPA and ALPA any more clearly.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

All USAPA generated info? I know you guys have hired some real winners... like "Tyrrany of the Majority" lawyers and that real gem of a counseler Haber... Did the Iraqi Info Minister get a job too!


The sentiment is you guys will win on April 17th. The party will be quick, because allot of East pilots are going to looking for results... Some will probably think instant results...

Better chance for Middle East peace...

Good luck..

 

[SaturnPilot]

As mandated by the USAPA Constitution, the first USAPA Board of Pilot Reps meeting will be held in CLT at the same hotel used by the crews, The Sterling Inn. Rooms go for about $44/night, with free shuttle service to and from the airport for those pilots wishing to attend. We could not contrast the difference between USAPA and ALPA any more clearly.

Great...can they buy everything from WalMart also?? This policy of staying wherever crews stay is going to work GREAT when they have a meeting at an office 20+ miles away, or when there's little food nearby, and they have to expense cab rides back and forth all day. Sorry, I'd rather my union have the flexibility to book UNION hotels closest to a meeting site to minimize transportation/other expenses.

 

[BeCareful!]

Back to the topic, does anyone else here have a problem with ALPA trying to exclude votes by pilots who were recalled early last year, but were held at WO carriers or Republic under the provisions of LOA91? The hold was to be "up to nine months," as determined by the staffing requirements of the regional airline. If you quit, mainline vowed to keep you out the whole nine months. But that didn't matter, the f'ing regionals held most of those pilots the whole nine months anyway. So, in other words, PSA's Tim Keusher and his inability to staff his operation has resulted in pilots being stripped of their right to vote on representation long after they had officially been recalled to mainline.

I don't care which side of the Mississippi you're on, that's F*&^%d UP!!!!!

 

[BeCareful!]

Rez,

Is that all you got? That the only place we find information about ALPA's scumbag moves is on the USAPA website?

I checked the ALPA website for info on this latest maneuver of theirs, but they aren't publishing anything about it.

Perhaps they aren't too proud of the way this makes them look.

For what it's worth, I don't agree with you about ALPA losing this vote. There is a greedy, misinformed group that pictures an ALPA contract hatching overnight. Never happened before, but many drink the ALPA Koolaid.

I love the "retro active" pay thing the East ALPA keeps babbling about. Riiight, and monkeys are going to fly out of Parker's butt!

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I agree with Rez....I too think that USAPA will win this one.

It probably isn't gonna be all that bad. Remember SWAPA once had their day 1...and they just celebrated their 30th anniversary.

And how long has it been since the AA pilots left the "Mother Ship"?

 

[PositiveRate]

BeCareful,

The NMB requires that those who vote are 'regularly working in the craft or class on and after the cutoff date', which was 11/13/07. If you were recalled, but not on property, that doesn't count. Same for anyone hired after 11/13.

Yes, it sucks for the 15 people who accepted recall but were not in class on the 13th. You either are or are not receiving a US Airways paycheck on the cutoff date. Are you going to claim the policy was flawed again after you lose? Maybe try to oust the NMB?

You USAPA guys think that the rules are infinitely flexible and that if something doesn't suit your needs/wants/agenda, you can just change things up mid process.

I don't think USAPA is going to win, but who knows...maybe you and your buddies are sandbagging us. There is a huge difference between signing a card and voting away your career protections for empty promises that simply cannot be fulfilled.

What I do know is that you're going to see a pro ALPA vote count above 95% for our group...At max, there might be 50 no-voters out here.

I did a day trip earlier in the week and at PHX and LAS I saw an ALPA lanyard or badgebacker on EVERY SINGLE awa pilot I passed. That unity will carry forward and win regardless of the outcome on the 17th. I am certain of that.

 

[T-Bags]

I did a day trip earlier in the week and at PHX and LAS I saw an ALPA lanyard or badgebacker on EVERY SINGLE awa pilot I passed. That unity will carry forward and win regardless of the outcome on the 17th. I am certain of that.

You know ALPA makes tie tacks too... (wear it so I'll know who you are... )

 

[get2flyin]

"ALPA dues at work...protecting itself." At YOUR expense, no doubt?

How do you think the West feels about USAPA?

"USAPA dues at work...protecting USAir East", at MY expense.

Betcha didn't see it that way...

 

[LearLove]

You either are or are not receiving a US Airways paycheck on the cutoff date.

You USAPA guys think that the rules are infinitely flexible and that if something doesn't suit your needs/wants/agenda, you can just change things up mid process.

PR - then why since 7/9/07 (my recall date) have I had money put into my US retirement account. what about the US profit share check I got last month. I'd call that pay.

USAPA changing the rules - are you freaking kidding - thats like ALPA's mode of operation to the max.

Like I've said in other posts, I see both side however after this crap USAPA just got my vote.

 

[waveflyer]

Is any of this going to change anyone's mind w/ less than a week to go?

Really- can we get past the emotion?

AAA pilots- you've seen the worst of our seniority system- will you help those of us trying to set up a guild and look at the viability of a NSL? We're going to need help from ALL the unions ALPA/SWAPA/IPA/APA/NPA/TEAMSTERS- we have to start working on a solution so that w/ every merger we're not warring w/ each other so hard that we miss the rare opportunities to increase our contracts.

One thing is for sure-= no matter the outcome of this war- It's not going to be the last- we should all be working on a solution.

 

[SaturnPilot]

I agree with Rez....I too think that USAPA will win this one.

It probably isn't gonna be all that bad. Remember SWAPA once had their day 1...and they just celebrated their 30th anniversary.

And how long has it been since the AA pilots left the "Mother Ship"?

I agree that SWAPA and APA have been successful, but their core goals are not at the expense of almost half of their pilot groups. They have also not had to deal with almost half of their pilot group refusing to pay dues. Lets not forget that USAPA needs a $200 donation from every pilot just to run ONE election. They're going to have a lot of bills come due soon with less than half of the dues revenue they could have with everybody paying.

The communication from USAPA that started this thread is kind of amusing considering they are a "union" that will completely ignore and trample on the entire pilot group from the West.

 

[pilotss]

Newhire here,

I have never heard from ALPA so much before in my last 10 years of commercial aviation then now. I get 1 sometimes 2 mailings a day. I had to turn off their emails because I would see one almost every day.

I have worked at non union carriers that were fair, Teamsters carriers, ALPA carriers that needed a union and carriers transitioning to ALPA desperately needing a union.

I have watched unions allow undercutting union busting carriers screw their fellow Trans States pilots and allow them in their fold.

It is disturbing to me that thousands in union funds are being sent out in mailings. Mailings I cannot turn off. It tells me that ALPA has been neglectful of its fold having to remind them of what it has achieved in the past years. It tells me ALPA is weak in its membership that are not actively participating enough. It shows me ALPA is not united and not effective enough. In the end unions have become a business. And business is about the income statement and your job second or your job first if it positively affects the income statement.

Name the last few ALPA presidents you have cheered? Even before this debacle of seniority I would always hear unsolicited grumblings in the cockpit to the crew room. When was the last time you heard " that ______, what a guy!"

ALPA this and ALPA that. I think any union would have done what ALPA has accomplished and ALPA itself is not entirely special. ALPA is scared now of losing dues at US and other carriers and I think that is good. I hope that USAPA whether voted in or not will make ALPA a stronger, refreshed, new union.

Who really "Flies the line" these days?
Very few.

 

[TWA Dude]

I agree that SWAPA and APA have been successful, ...

Just want to point out there's little that's been "successful" about these unions that hasn't come from the success of their employers. Is there ever a struggling airline where the pilots are happy with their union? Look at how many pilots on message boards think the union should somehow fix the industry.

I'm an APA member in addition to ALPA and I can say there's nothing superior about either organization. The AA pilots still have their A Plan only because they gave sufficient concessions in 2003 to prevent the company from going Chapter 11. There's no real reason to put the independent unions on a pedastal. If Southwest ever starts struggling financially I guarantee SWAPA will have a real hard time adjusting to dealing with a less friendly employer.

 

[TWA Dude]

It is disturbing to me that thousands in union funds are being sent out in mailings.

Funny you should say that. Back in 2001, one of the many complaints the TWA pilots had about ALPA was how little they did to support us when we were fighting against the APA in our merger. At the very least every ALPA pilot should've been well-informed about our struggle.

Now, ALPA is facing a battle against a raider and you are "disturbed" they have the gall to agressively fight it! Pilots like you would probably criticize ALPA no matter what tactic it uses.

 

[regionaltard]

I agree with Rez....I too think that USAPA will win this one.

It probably isn't gonna be all that bad. Remember SWAPA once had their day 1...and they just celebrated their 30th anniversary.

And how long has it been since the AA pilots left the "Mother Ship"?

There is no meaningful basis for comparison between USAPA and either APA or SWAPA.

 

[Crzipilot]

The NMB requires that those who vote are 'regularly working in the craft or class on and after the cutoff date', which was 11/13/07. If you were recalled, but not on property, that doesn't count. Same for anyone hired after 11/13.

Yes, it sucks for the 15 people who accepted recall but were not in class on the 13th. You either are or are not receiving a US Airways paycheck on the cutoff date. Are you going to claim the policy was flawed again after you lose? Maybe try to oust the NMB?

You USAPA guys think that the rules are infinitely flexible and that if something doesn't suit your needs/wants/agenda, you can just change things up mid process.

Actually it looks like it was ALPA that was trying to overstep. NMB just ruled that as long as you are on property by the end of voting you can vote. I believe ALPA wanted the cutoff date of Nov 13. NMB said April 17th. There are some on LOA which the NMB is saying are ineligble, others are eligble. Net Net, from the whole list I believe it is 28 people that have been determined as ineligible. As they are working for Jet Blue or another "carrier", or have retired, or can't get a medical.

So after all the BS bickering back and forth between USAPA/ALPA/USAIRWAYS final ruling is there are 5241 eligible voters. Don't know how it's split east/west though.

 

[PositiveRate]

thanks for the update.

bytheway, your idea on the other thread about ALPA wasn't half bad.

 

[Crzipilot]

If it went that way, we wouldn't be in the position we are in. We'd be argueing on who was going to take the fat one and who was going to pay the tab...

 

[PositiveRate]

I'll take the tab ;-)

 

[Crzipilot]

See, the arguing starts again.......I'll take the tab...HAHAHA

 

[pipejockey]

So this is where ALPO finds it necessary to spend my money. $300 hotel rooms instead of putting a stop to the disgraceful TA's they have allowed to be put forth to their respectful pilot groups. This is shameful!! I wish ALPO would just GO AWAY!!

This is why I'm voting USAPA! (from USAPA Email)


>>Finally, we note that the ALPA MEC meeting is being held at the at the Mandarin Oriental, Washington DC, described as one of the, “Top 100 Hotels of the World." Following are some of the descriptions of this hotel from their web site: "Quite simply we offer guests a new level of luxury." "Our elegant rooms and suites offer wonderful views. Our restaurant, CityZen, is under the guidance of Eric Ziebold, one of America’s ‘best new chefs’. Our spa facilities have earned one of the highest accolades in the region. Guests enjoy wonderful views over the stately city sights and waterfront. At Mandarin Oriental, Washington DC, we pride ourselves on providing a level of luxury that is unique in the American capital... grandeur that greets our hotel guests at every turn." Rooms with an airline discount run about $300/night. For those interested in learning more about the manner in which ALPA spends your dues dollars, click here to visit the Mandarin Oriental's web site. The hotel offers no shuttle service so those pilots wishing to attend must find their own way.
Contrast this with the way USAPA does business. As mandated by the USAPA Constitution, the first USAPA Board of Pilot Reps meeting will be held in CLT at the same hotel used by the crews, The Sterling Inn. Rooms go for about $44/night, with free shuttle service to and from the airport for those pilots wishing to attend. We could not contrast the difference between USAPA and ALPA any more clearly.