ALPA chest thumpers

[CopilotDoug]

Well, let's see... Since the February 2007 issue of Aviation International News(page 67) states that "Skywest Airlines turned the biggest profit margins in the entire airline industry during the third quarter, 12.3%", and then comparing the 0 or 1%(for 101/2 years) we got compared to FedEX pilots.... YES!!!!! I'd attribute the success to ALPA!

Wait dude...you're losing me here...what do you mean by "and then comparing the 0 or 1%(for 101/2 years) we got compared to FedEX pilots" ???

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Wait dude...you're losing me here...what do you mean by "and then comparing the 0 or 1%(for 101/2 years) we got compared to FedEX pilots" ???

I mean after quarter after quarter and year after year of huge profits here at Skyw, our SAPA(non ALPA) reps only managed to "negotiate"(if you want to call it that) a raise of 0% for Emb pilots, and a whopping 1% for the rest...This was after 61/2 years of no COLA, and we're locked in for another 4 years! Does less than .1% a year(or nothing) seem like SAPA did anywhere near as well as ALPA did for FedEx?

 

[CopilotDoug]

I mean after quarter after quarter and year after year of huge profits here at Skyw, our SAPA(non ALPA) reps only managed to "negotiate"(if you want to call it that) a raise of 0% for Emb pilots, and a whopping 1% for the rest...This was after 61/2 years of no COLA, and we're locked in for another 4 years! Does less than .1% a year(or nothing) seem like SAPA did anywhere near as well as ALPA???

This is two different arguments here...

My point was that you cannot compare Big Cargo (UPS and FedEx) to Airlines or Fractionals. All three operate on different business models. And the Teamsters have shown that you don't need to be ALPA to get a good contract*under favorable conditions.

But getting back to your point, what in particular will ALPA bring to the table which will allow them to squeeze management's nuts and get more than SAPA?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

This is two different arguments here...

My point was that you cannot compare Big Cargo (UPS and FedEx) to Airlines or Fractionals. All three operate on different business models. And the Teamsters have shown that you don't need to be ALPA to get a good contract*under favorable conditions.

But getting back to your point, what in particular will ALPA bring to the table which will allow them to squeeze management's nuts and get more than SAPA?

Well, for one, I was trying to point out in a nice way SAPA can't really negotiate for us...They take whatever management offers and present it to us, that's not really negotiating in my book!

 

[DX Rick]

Well, for one, I was trying to point out in a nice way SAPA can't really negotiate for us...They take whatever management offers and present it to us, that's not really negotiating in my book!

That isn't because it's SAPA's fault. It's because it's the guys on the boards fault.
Kind of remind of a little ole regional airline called......MESA!!!
Andy Hughes always said "This is the best we can get" then packed his bags for a weekend cruise/ski trip with JO

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Copilotdoug and DX Rick....

Part of the art of complaining is to offer solutions.... single seniority lists, single payrates and a national SOS sound great..but no one has come up with workable ways to do it...

The issue is you complain about ALPA ineffectiveness but you offer to methodologies to change that for the better...

ALPA isn't the great organization.... but it is all we got. I am willing to what I can to make it better... regardless of the flaws etc....

 

[DX Rick]

ALPA isn't the great organization.... but it is all we got. I am willing to what I can to make it better... regardless of the flaws etc....

I agree. So where would one go to become involved with the Union? I would look on the ALPA website, but they STILL haven't gotten me my password. Even after I called. They said they would email it to me....nadda.

I'm not going to sit here and complain without getting involved. So thats why I want to get involved, THEN complain

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Quote from co-pilot Doug-But getting back to your point, what in particular will ALPA bring to the table which will allow them to squeeze management's nuts and get more than SAPA?

Doug nothing SAPA has presented us in the last couple of pay votes included any QOL wording. SAPA tries to get pay but if BH gets mad at them he can walk away from the table until he sees fit to return. I don't blame the SAPA guys. It's just kinda like goin bear huntin with a sling shot.

 

[CopilotDoug]

The issue is you complain about ALPA ineffectiveness but you offer to methodologies to change that for the better...

Rez, I don't know if it can be changed. I agree that we need something, but I think that ALPA needs to re-think its strategy. How can ALPA, which represents two regionals, allow one to be undercut and lose flying to the other? What is ALPA doing to solidify its different regionals to avoid this situation? ALPA has potential, and they have tools. Do they need to strike if they don't get their way? Not necessarily, but they can do a slow down. What I keep hearing is "You gotta play by the rules" Isn't that the impetus which helped form ALPA? The rules didn't favor the pilot?

ALPA has resources at its disposal which it doesn't want to use. It involves taking risks, maybe doing a slow down or having a strike...but until ALPA gets the pilot groups together to act as one, Management will be able to divide and conquer at will.

Where's the help from the majors? They're involved more than they know it because when furloughs are handed out, alot of those guys are taking jobs at Regionals which they couldn't give to $hits about while they were flying for Mainline. Why don't they build something into their contract to the effect of: Any airline performing regional duties for Delta will agree not to fly these aircraft lower than these rates?

Yeah, it's one from left field, but it's thinking out of the box. Has this idea been suggested before?

 

[DX Rick]

Rez, I don't know if it can be changed. I agree that we need something, but I think that ALPA needs to re-think its strategy. How can ALPA, which represents two regionals, allow one to be undercut and lose flying to the other? What is ALPA doing to solidify its different regionals to avoid this situation? ALPA has potential, and they have tools. Do they need to strike if they don't get their way? Not necessarily, but they can do a slow down. What I keep hearing is "You gotta play by the rules" Isn't that the impetus which helped form ALPA? The rules didn't favor the pilot?

ALPA has resources at its disposal which it doesn't want to use. It involves taking risks, maybe doing a slow down or having a strike...but until ALPA gets the pilot groups together to act as one, Management will be able to divide and conquer at will.

Where's the help from the majors? They're involved more than they know it because when furloughs are handed out, alot of those guys are taking jobs at Regionals which they couldn't give to $hits about while they were flying for Mainline. Why don't they build something into their contract to the effect of: Any airline performing regional duties for Delta will agree not to fly these aircraft lower than these rates?

Yeah, it's one from left field, but it's thinking out of the box. Has this idea been suggested before?

What I have seen is that the guys are pro-union, they just arent completely in love with ALPA local or National right now.
We all know what the problems are within the Union, but between local and national.....no one seems to know how to fix the problem.

 

[HelloNewman]

Quote from co-pilot Doug-But getting back to your point, what in particular will ALPA bring to the table which will allow them to squeeze management's nuts and get more than SAPA?

Doug nothing SAPA has presented us in the last couple of pay votes included any QOL wording. SAPA tries to get pay but if BH gets mad at them he can walk away from the table until he sees fit to return. I don't blame the SAPA guys. It's just kinda like goin bear huntin with a sling shot.

So is using ALPA except you have to pay for the privlege of a stalled contract. The next rumor has ASA's 80% clause being waived by SkyWest allowing a lot more DCI flying from other airlines into ATL. Lets face it the cards are stacked against us anyway so we might as well keep our dues.

The funniest thing to watch is the members of the OC frantically try to rant and rave to all the new pilots in ORD about how bad they have it and how they must join a union to make life better. They try to treat everyone like infants who are dumb and that we even need a union to change our diapers for us. We all just high five and laugh our asses off that they are dumb enough to waste all this money on free food for us to eat. They thats just that much more of my per diem I get to use for other things, for this I thank ALPA. BTW next time you guys come to ORD at least try to wine and dine us a bit more, its gonna take a lot more than burgers, steaks or leftover spam meat to get us to actually take you seriously LOL. Our goal here at SkyWest is to get ALPA to waste as much money as possible then laugh harder when they fail miserably.

 

[DrewBlows]

We all just high five...

You "high five"? Wow, you are a serious loser.

 

[CopilotDoug]

We all know what the problems are within the Union, but between local and national.....no one seems to know how to fix the problem.

I don't think it can be fixed. It will just have to remain a mediocre "union"

 

[HelloNewman]

You "high five"? Wow, you are a serious loser.

If that is the kind of thing your worried about more power to ya. I don't waste 2% of my check every month just to have the union recommend we take paycuts. You Pay 2% for the privledge of a paycut and you call us losers? We are getting the last laugh at the ones wasting their money every month such as yourself. We refrain from calling all you union guys losers, we at SkyWest simply feel sorry for you suckers.

 

[merlindrvr88]

That is great

Copilotdoug and DX Rick....

Part of the art of complaining is to offer solutions.... single seniority lists, single payrates and a national SOS sound great..but no one has come up with workable ways to do it...

The issue is you complain about ALPA ineffectiveness but you offer to methodologies to change that for the better...

ALPA isn't the great organization.... but it is all we got. I am willing to what I can to make it better... regardless of the flaws etc....

Wonderful Rez, so you are happy to sink with the ship. ALPO sucks, and members need to know ALPO represents ALPO, not the pilots. You can get rid of ALPO, and find something else, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It just doesn't entail ALPO. Get your own rep, and screw ALPO, they already screwed you.

 

[Corona]

...we at SkyWest simply feel sorry for you suckers...

...as you fly 70-seat jets at 50-seat rates?

What are you sucking on now?

C

 

[HelloNewman]

...as you fly 70-seat jets at 50-seat rates?

What are you sucking on now?

C

There is now an over-ride, the same rate thing was by choice. We didn't need to pay 2% to make our own decisions. Don't give me the expired agreement lecture because no airline has a new deal right when the deal expires. ASAs deal has been expired nearly 5 years. Ours was only expired 2.

 

[siucavflight]

We refrain from calling all you union guys losers, we at SkyWest simply feel sorry for you suckers.

Wow, you guys feel sorry for us? That will make me feel better thank you. I guess the fact that I make more money then you even when you take out the 2% is something that you should feel sorry for me about. Or the fact that my per diem is more you should feel sorry for me. Or the fact that I get more days off every month.
All regionals are crap, even SKW, does not matter if you have ALPA or not, your regional, my regional are crap flying jobs, we just need to get in and out and be done.
And by the way 3 dollars is not really an over ride, that is more of a joke.

 

[jbDC9]

We refrain from calling all you union guys losers, we at SkyWest simply feel sorry for you suckers.

Please, for the love of god, please stop acting as the retarded mouthpiece or "representative" for SkyWest pilots. You sir, are a brain dead, retarded idiot. I know several SKW pilots based in CA... and ya know what? They don't think the same as you, so quit with the "we at SkyWest" crap.

Loser.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Doug nothing SAPA has presented us in the last couple of pay votes included any QOL wording. SAPA tries to get pay but if BH gets mad at them he can walk away from the table until he sees fit to return. I don't blame the SAPA guys. It's just kinda like goin bear huntin with a sling shot.

I agree with Merlin, form your own Union. Taylor it to the needs of the Skywest pilots. This idea that ALPA can "fairly" represent your airline, and every other regional out there in deregulation is a farce. It's every airline for itself. You won't get any real backing from mainline, ever. And it's not the jobs of the other regionals to make sure you guys get what you're owed. You guys won't be any different when you vote in ALPA. You'll get your COLA...maybe a small bump in pay, ALPA might tie it up for you in a 32 year contract (Ok, I exagerate sometimes) but give it a few weeks, and you'll ask yourself why ALPA didn't get more for you. And then your next contract will come up, and ALPA will really waffle...and then you guys will be b!tching with the rest of the regionals.

and SIUCAVFLIGHT has a point, every regional out there does suck. They are crap jobs. If you think otherwise, you're seriously deluded.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The APA asked Clinton to intervene.

Actually, the other unions at AA did via the AFL-CIO. The other unions at AA were pissed that the pilots were going to shut the airline down out of what they percieved as greed. This because the APA blew the other unions off constantly. They asked Clinton to intervene because they didn't want APA to have that power. This is why you need to build coalitions between labor groups, not walls.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actually, the other unions at AA did via the AFL-CIO. The other unions at AA were pissed that the pilots were going to shut the airline down out of what they percieved as greed. This because the APA blew the other unions off constantly. They asked Clinton to intervene because they didn't want APA to have that power. This is why you need to build coalitions between labor groups, not walls.

BINGO! We saw the same thing happen at NWA with the mechanics.

 

[bustinmins]

A few instances that I know about:

1. Pilot is terminated because of an FO's poor preflight - ALPA wins wrongful termination lawsuit and pilot is compensated back pay and enough penalty to buy this guy a house in DC. Mind you, not just the downpayment but the whole house paid in full.

2. Pilot duties off, changes clothes and is waiting to board his commute flight home. Company employee, who missed him coming off his trip, finds this pilot standing in line and informs him that he needs to take a whiz quiz as a part of the random drug test. He refuses saying that he is off duty and has been for over 45 minutes. He's on his way home and that if they have a problem with that then they should have found him immediately following his trip. He's fired. ALPA wins this guy's job back with back pay.

That is just the two I know about but I'm sure there are more

THUMP THUMP

 

[DX Rick]

A few instances that I know about:

1. Pilot is terminated because of an FO's poor preflight - ALPA wins wrongful termination lawsuit and pilot is compensated back pay and enough penalty to buy this guy a house in DC. Mind you, not just the downpayment but the whole house paid in full.

2. Pilot duties off, changes clothes and is waiting to board his commute flight home. Company employee, who missed him coming off his trip, finds this pilot standing in line and informs him that he needs to take a whiz quiz as a part of the random drug test. He refuses saying that he is off duty and has been for over 45 minutes. He's on his way home and that if they have a problem with that then they should have found him immediately following his trip. He's fired. ALPA wins this guy's job back with back pay.

That is just the two I know about but I'm sure there are more

THUMP THUMP

And there are many cases they didn't win.

 

[John Pennekamp]

BINGO! We saw the same thing happen at NWA with the mechanics.

Sort of. AMFA did piss off the other labor groups because they tried to dictate terms instead of taking their medicine like everybody else. So the other unions hung them out to dry by refusing to honor their picket line. Not exactly the same as petitioning the government to intercede, but still the same result.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And there are many cases they didn't win.

Better to have failed your VD test than to never have loved at all....

 

[siucavflight]

Better to have failed your VD test than to never have loved at all....

This is true.
I find that the best place to pick up chicks is at the VD clinic, you already know that those girls put out.

 

[John Pennekamp]

This is true.
I find that the best place to pick up chicks is at the VD clinic, you already know that those girls put out.

Also at the obstetrician's office.

 

[DrewBlows]

And there are many cases they didn't win.

If those were the only two instances that ALPA "won", it would still be two more "wins" than all non-union outfits combined.

 

[DrewBlows]

you call us losers?

No, I called you a loser.