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ALPA "‘Pay to Play’ Costs Too Much"

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MOONBEAM

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Posts
21
What do you think ALPA has planned to strengthen the regional airline pilot groups? Can the regional pilot groups stand up for each other and come up with a plan to stop the race for the bottom? Here are a couple for articles from ALPA.

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=2298&ModuleId=2618&Tabid=73

http://www.alpa.org/Default.aspx?tabid=179

January 24, 2006
Capt. Woerth Forms “Fee-For-Departure Task Force”
ALPA has unveiled a new initiative in its long fight to protect the wages and work rules of express pilots--a Fee-For-Departure Task Force.
Like their counterparts who fly for legacy carriers, ALPA pilots who fly for express carriers have regularly met and shared information during the last several years in a coordinated effort to protect their rates of pay and work rules. As capacity in the 50-seat jet market has grown to exceed demand, this group now faces a new and difficult challenge from their managements.
Much of the flying that express pilots perform is done under so-called “fee-for-departure.” Under this type of agreement, a mainline carrier agrees to pay the express partner a fixed fee for each flight serving the mainline carrier. Recently, several mainline carriers have put out requests for proposals “inviting” express carriers throughout the industry to bid for the right to partner for them. The flying goes to the express carrier willing to fly for the lowest fee per departure.
To secure a piece of this shrinking pie, many express carriers, arguing that they need relief to compete for the right to partner with a legacy carrier, have sought concessions from their pilot groups. The result is a brutal race to the bottom for employees.
In light of managements’ attempts to whipsaw one pilot group against another, leaders from several express carrier pilot groups recently concluded that ALPA needed to devise specific strategies to vigorously resist these pressures. In response, ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, last week formed a “Fee-For-Departure Task Force” and charged it to develop recommendations for an effective strategy to resist unreasonable demands for concessions and to maintain minimum standards for rates of pay among express carrier pilot groups.
The members of the Fee-For-Departure Task Force are
  • Capt. John Mondus (Air Wisconsin), Negotiating Committee chairman
  • First Officer Andy Nordgren (American Eagle), Negotiating Committee chairman
  • Capt. Cory Tennen (Comair), Negotiating Committee chairman
  • Capt. Neal Schwartz (Express Jet), Negotiating Committee chairman
  • Capt. Mark Nagel (Mesaba), Negotiating Committee member
“The same disruptive demand for concessions that occurred to Air Wisconsin, Atlantic Coast, and Mesa after United entered into bankruptcy three years ago is happening now at Delta and Northwest and their express partners,” explained Capt. Woerth. “With Comair in bankruptcy with Delta, and Mesaba in bankruptcy because of Northwest, the pressure is rising.”
“Pinnacle and Atlantic Southeast are directly affected, but Continental has threatened Express Jet, and American Eagle management won’t sit back as the feeding frenzy begins,” Capt. Woerth continued. “Every pilot--express and mainline pilots alike--has a stake in this fight. If we pull together and refuse to be pitted against each other, as management is attempting to do, we will succeed in protecting the pay and work rules that our profession deserves.”




From the President

‘Pay to Play’ Costs Too Much
In 2003, Air Wisconsin pilots thought they had made it through the downturn in the airline industry when they agreed to concessions, which were contingent upon the carrier securing a new and fully effective United Airlines code-share agreement that the bankruptcy court approved. That’s why they were so surprised when they found out, well after the fact, that the new code-share agreement had not been assumed by United. In a bid to re-secure the flying for United, Air Wisconsin management suggested further concessions to finance United’s hard-line financial conditions.
Given the overall health of the airline industry and the uncertain future that the Air Wisconsin pilots would face without the United flying, their caving in would have been easy to understand. But they did not. They told management that they would not entertain any further concessions.
Faced with the real potential of losing the United code-share, Air Wisconsin management used an investment-arm subsidiary to invest in US Airways in exchange for the right to fly seventy 50-seat jets. Pilots had defended their contract, and the airline had found a home in the reshuffled world of mainline-small jet partnerships.
This story lays bare a fresh challenge facing the airline industry today. The days of guaranteed fee-for-departure profits--even as the mainline carriers hemorrhaged cash --are over. Mainline carriers are using their brand power to leverage one small-jet carrier against another in a new system I call "Pay to Play." And small-jet carrier managements are only too willing to play the game.
Here’s how it works: In bankruptcy, a mainline carrier finally gets to renegotiate its affiliated carrier contracts. Tired of guaranteeing profits to capacity providers, mainline management makes a proposal to as many of them as possible to fly for the lowest cost possible. To win the bid, some "pay to play" when their managements agree to terms below their current costs. In the construction business, if a contractor bids for work below his costs, the contractor eats the losses. However, this is the airline business.
Instead, the "pay to play" management emerges from the corporate suite with a plan: Turn to the pilots and asks them to finance the deal by granting concessions, while dangling a carrot like future 70-seat flying. The ball is then in management’s court, and pilots have a choice to make. Pilots can transfer their hard-fought gains to shareholders, or they can hold firm and require their management to manage competently, by refusing to bid below their costs.
If pilots decide to subsidize the "pay to play" game, the bar shifts lower for all of us.
On the other hand, if pilots refuse to play, management has to find a new way to finance its decisions. Both management and pilots suffer pain in the short term. But in the longer term, other pilots will strengthen their resolve, and management will understand that underbidding to capture flying is an irrational strategy.
We’re seeing the "pay to play" phenomenon across our union. Atlantic Southeast, Comair, Mesa, Mesaba, Pinnacle, and several others are either in the crosshairs or getting close. That’s why ALPA called a meeting in Herndon, Va., recently to gather several MEC leaders with our Representation, Legal, Economic and Financial Analysis, and Communications Departments to build a strategy to bolster pilot groups as they stand up to the pressure.
Make no mistake--this is no easy task. The loss of capacity we are witnessing will ratchet up the pressure everywhere to capture flying.
But no pilot group can guarantee its future by standing alone. Only by standing together and holding up a collective banner that says, "We Refuse to Subsidize Management’s Decisions," can we preserve this profession, stabilize the wage and benefit bar, and begin to exert our own leverage upward.
For those of you on the mainline carriers who might either be gratified that someone else is being hurt or feel this is not your fight, I have one word: Wrong. This is your fight too, because as soon as managements are able to lower the small-jet bar, they’ll sharpen their knives and come back to you to "close the gap" yet again.
--Capt. Duane Woerth, ALPA President
 
excellent post. alpa is our union for better or worse and these guys are trying to make a difference. it is time now for our groups collectively to stop this finger pointing, which mangmt. loves by the way, and start respecting ourselves and our peers. it's time to take an intrest in all our groups not just our own airline and find out what's going on in this industry and take part in shaping the future of our careers.
 
Unfortunately when some groups stand strong, one will always cut them to get what is best for themselves. See PSA stabbing ALG and PDT in 2002, or Mesa undercutting everyone, all the time. It is a slippery slope, because Management knows how to make us feel like we will all lose our jobs to Mesa or whomever else if we dont come down to their level. I think what we see happeneing is most of us dont care anymore. Let them have it. I, personally think the job is worth more than they are willing to take to do it.
 
79%N1 said:
See PSA stabbing ALG and PDT in 2002

Your statment is only partially correct, it should see the PSA MEC believing every used car sales pitch and voting in a New contract, J4J, and 70 seat slotted bidding without the pilot group having a say in the matter.
 
The problem, again, is that there is no 'enforcement mechanism'. Without a way to discourage undercutting other carriers, there is no way to prevent it.

Suppose all regional MEC's get on board with this idea, except one. The one MEC that refuses to cooperate can expect to capture much of the flying from the others. In other words, it only takes one small group with a me-first mentality to ruin everything.

We all are mostly on board with the idea of standing together, but to move that beyond simple pretty rhetoric is going to be the hardest part. There is not even the beginning of a consensus on how that can be achieved.

Until there is accountability, there is not gonig to be any shortage of pilots willing to undercut other pilots.


Bottom line: How can you enforce the behavior of pilot groups?
 
How about some representation by Mesa and other ALPA member groups on this task force? If we're going to see any benefits from this we need to get as many groups in on this as we can! Heck, why not get some legacy carrier representation here too. We're all in this together! We need to get some balls and stand up for our livelyhoods!!

MOONBEAM said:
In response, ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, last week formed a “Fee-For-Departure Task Force” and charged it to develop recommendations for an effective strategy to resist unreasonable demands for concessions and to maintain minimum standards for rates of pay among express carrier pilot groups.
The members of the Fee-For-Departure Task Force are
  • Capt. John Mondus (Air Wisconsin), Negotiating Committee chairman
  • First Officer Andy Nordgren (American Eagle), Negotiating Committee chairman
  • Capt. Cory Tennen (Comair), Negotiating Committee chairman
  • Capt. Neal Schwartz (Express Jet), Negotiating Committee chairman
  • Capt. Mark Nagel (Mesaba), Negotiating Committee member
 
Smoking Man said:
Your statment is only partially correct, it should see the PSA MEC believing every used car sales pitch and voting in a New contract, J4J, and 70 seat slotted bidding without the pilot group having a say in the matter.

With all respect, the statement was true enough in this context.
 
100LL... Again! said:
The problem, again, is that there is no 'enforcement mechanism'. Without a way to discourage undercutting other carriers, there is no way to prevent it.

Suppose all regional MEC's get on board with this idea, except one. The one MEC that refuses to cooperate can expect to capture much of the flying from the others. In other words, it only takes one small group with a me-first mentality to ruin everything.

We all are mostly on board with the idea of standing together, but to move that beyond simple pretty rhetoric is going to be the hardest part. There is not even the beginning of a consensus on how that can be achieved.

Until there is accountability, there is not gonig to be any shortage of pilots willing to undercut other pilots.


Bottom line: How can you enforce the behavior of pilot groups?


Yes..........exactly.........They are called MESA!!!!
 
ALPA is just trying to fix what they screwed up in the first place. Remember ALPA president Duane Woerthless signed off on those agreementts for the Mesa pilots and for those jets for jobs agreement. ALPA did the one thing they said they would never do, and that was to succumb to mgt's games, yet they did. Mgt saw this and is now taking advantage of this, And now it his a race to the bottom as ACA/IDE has already made it to the promised land known as the bottom. Who is going to join them? I know NWA is putting RFPs for bid and so will Continental, I bet Mesa is lurking around the corner on this.
Get real, have you seen those pay scales? 2nd year RJ FO is $28/hr? and they fought hard for $1.21 per diem? Let's face it, the wages will not keep up with the cost of living.
 
Agreed, it's ALPA mess, but then again, they must be the solution.

So, then there's your "enforement mechanism", ALPA. If ALPA says:

"Only by standing together and holding up a collective banner that says, "We Refuse to Subsidize Management’s Decisions," can we preserve this profession, stabilize the wage and benefit bar, and begin to exert our own leverage upward."

Then from now on ALPA only signs off on improved contracts. End of discussion.
 
El Ocho said:

Then from now on ALPA only signs off on improved contracts. End of discussion.

Whatever happened to the rumor that DW wouldn't sign off on Comair's concessions? That was a good one for about a week.
 
jpeace02 said:
excellent post. alpa is our union for better or worse and these guys are trying to make a difference. it is time now for our groups collectively to stop this finger pointing, which mangmt. loves by the way, and start respecting ourselves and our peers. it's time to take an intrest in all our groups not just our own airline and find out what's going on in this industry and take part in shaping the future of our careers.

Hey Dumba??
D. Worthless is only saying this because his major dues come from regionals now. Mesa is bad, but look how many pilots they have. The majors are shrinking, so Dwayne is changing tactics. I wish he would have to go back flying for a living, I don't even think he knows what a plane looks like. But he represents you, WHY IS THAT?? Get a new leader. ALPO sucks, and they sell out everyone. Fuc? JO and management, if we had a good union, this would not happen. WAKE UP !!!!
 
Hey Dumba??
D. Worthless is only saying this because his major dues come from regionals now. Mesa is bad, but look how many pilots they have. The majors are shrinking, so Dwayne is changing tactics. I wish he would have to go back flying for a living, I don't even think he knows what a plane looks like. But he represents you, WHY IS THAT?? Get a new leader. ALPO sucks, and they sell out everyone. Fuc? JO and management, if we had a good union, this would not happen. WAKE UP !!!!

merlindrvr88 said:
If this is a real post, grow the hell up.













































.....
 
merlin,

i appreciate your energy however misdirected it is. but you don't seem to have any plausable solutions and the, "pay to play" taskforce is actually doing something instead of pointing fingers. maybe you should get involved with making a difference because i'm sure your energy would be welcome.
 
WSurf said:
Well before you get hot and steamy remember all the paycuts we have all taken over the years!! You think any of these people did?
http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/unionOfficers.cfm?id=235072

Yes I do. Sorry to shut down your hate machine.

First of all, the average reader wouldn't know who is who, and would make many assumptions... feeding off such assuptions and thinking misinformation is real.

There are three ALPA Nat'l officers there...you have to scroll down the list to the mediorce compensation. But you will see thier ALPA compensation (salary) is ZERO! Thier other compensation is thier pay from thier respected airlines. The three officers work for UAL, DAL and USAIR. And yes those are concessionary rates, not to mention, which you can't see, eliminated pensions. These are the paycuts you claim do not exist.

Most of the higher compensation is for the ALPA General Manager and lawyers. Most of these lawyers are true unionist and labor activists. They could make more cash doing other things, but they are at ALPA.

I'm not sure how critical the general pilot membership realizes how important lawyers are when representing pilots under the RLA. If you don't know then you probaly think they are over paid. Yet you expect passengers to realize the value of a pilot.....

Now, let's talk about the high compensation of the President. Keep in mind, I am not defending DW per se, but the office of the president for ALPA.

Let's compare the presidents salary to a pilot with similiar seniority. This pilot has about 15+ days off and flies three or four trips a month. The President works about 50+ hours a week and is available on weekends.

In addition....

Can the avg line pilot be the President of a political organization? I know I couldn't.

Does the avg. line pilot have the skill set to adress congress? I don't.

Does the average line pilot have the ability to call a meeting with a congressman? I don't.

Does the avg line pilot have the ability to address the issues of Air Line Pilots with industry leaders? I don't.

Does the avg line pilot want to live in the middle of DC. How much of your income should you have to give up, just because you have to live five blocks from one of the most exp. real estate makets? Should you get a stipend?






Even if the avg line pilot could do all this, why would he give up 15+ days off and 3/4 trips a month for a presidents schedule? Where is the incentive?

The incentive actually comes from you the avg line pilot, thru your elected representatives, who determine compensation. If you really don't like the salaries and want to use it as your poster child for how miserable you really are, then grow some stones and do something about it...

But if you just want hate.....well...that is easy....

If you want to make your profession better, keep your eye on the ball..........

If you claim that the President should take a pay cut to exercise leadership, then shouldn't your airline execs? But yet, more ALPA pilots seems content calling for paycuts from their own then management. And what if the president did take a pay cut? Would your followership suddenly gain integrity?

Does a ALPA president paycut mean you'll start going to LEC meetings? Maybe you'll increase the voter particaption to majority levels? File a greivance to defend the CBA? Will you give to ALPA PAC? Not even a dollar?

Actually, the President has taken a pay cut, but maybe it is not enough for you. There are pay formulas for the president and if you took the time to understand them, you would 1) be informed and 2) not be ignorant.

As long as you keep finding "fault" in others you'll never have to look in the mirror.....

Finally, if you want the ability and creditibility to call for paycuts within your own ranks, then you will have to give the same to anyone in your ranks who calls for your paycut!

post #39 has value.....


Moving right along... the link to the website in the first post is an anti labor website. The salary information is posted to "stir the pot" and you guys fell for it. If you'd like to deal with airline management as an individual go right ahead. And good luck.​

In addition, the information is compiled from the DOL's new LM reporting requirments that have costs unions millions of dollars. Not sure why the old way that did not cost unions millions wasn't working...

Hate and ingorance are for the weak... Get informed!!!
 
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Rez O. Lewshun said:
Actually, the President has taken a pay cut, but maybe it is not enough for you. There are pay formulas for the president and if you took the time to understand them, you would 1) be informed and 2) not be ignorant.

As long as you keep finding "fault" in others you'll never have to look in the mirror.....

Hate and ingorance are for the weak... Get informed!!!

Well Rez, I agree with you about getting informed, but that is about it. Are you aware of how the formula for compensation was changed at the 2002 BOD? It was changed from the highest 6 ALPA carriers to the highest 3 ALPA carriers. This was done to avoid DW having to take the cut he would have taken had it remained the highest 6 ALPA carriers. NWA, DAL, and FDX hadn't taken concessions by the 2002 BOD. Why was this done Rez?

Sorry Rez, but for DW to preach about excessive executive compensation at the airlines while continuing to make this much money, is extremely hypocritical. This total compensation doesn't even take into consideration his ALPA pension that he will earn when he leaves. That alone will be over $150,000 per year.

Hate and ignorance are for the weak, but so is blindly following ALPA. It is time for everyone to get more informed about how ALPA works, or doesn't work for that matter.
 
MOONBEAM said:
"Departure Task Force”

For those of you on the mainline carriers who might either be gratified that someone else is being hurt or feel this is not your fight, I have one word: Wrong. This is your fight too, because as soon as managements are able to lower the small-jet bar, they’ll sharpen their knives and come back to you to "close the gap" yet again.

That horse is so far gone he can't even hear the barn door slam behind him. This is definitely one situation where an ounce of prevention would have been woerth a pound of cure. Even if the statement turns out to be more than empty rhetoric, pilots will still be suffering the consequences of ALPA's mishandling of the alter-ego issue for many years to come.
 
JoeMerchant said:
Well Rez, I agree with you about getting informed, but that is about it. Are you aware of how the formula for compensation was changed at the 2002 BOD? It was changed from the highest 6 ALPA carriers to the highest 3 ALPA carriers. This was done to avoid DW having to take the cut he would have taken had it remained the highest 6 ALPA carriers. NWA, DAL, and FDX hadn't taken concessions by the 2002 BOD. Why was this done Rez?

Sorry Rez, but for DW to preach about excessive executive compensation at the airlines while continuing to make this much money, is extremely hypocritical. This total compensation doesn't even take into consideration his ALPA pension that he will earn when he leaves. That alone will be over $150,000 per year.

Hate and ignorance are for the weak, but so is blindly following ALPA. It is time for everyone to get more informed about how ALPA works, or doesn't work for that matter.

I addressed the changes in the 2002 BOD changes indirectly. Next time you walk into the crewroom point out the next ALPA president. Only about 5% of us have the skill set. Can someone place a value on having a representative speak to congress on our behalf concerning foreign ownership.

Also, I'm not saying the compensation doesn't need to be cut. So let's cut it. I only hear whining about ALPA National compensation on moniker message boards and guys getting off the crew bus. Perhaps if more than 5% of the memebership showed up at LEC meetings, they could organize a drive to cut such compensation. So it is really just trash talking... If it was important there'd be a real push for change. So far it is just a distraction. The fight is out there not here...

In addition, the 2006 BOD is comming up.... here is your opportunity to right a wrong. One of two things will happen: however the democratic process will have run its course and I will ask you to stop pushing the issue for it will have been addressed. (including by not being addressed). It also shows who was(n't) paying attention at the 2002 BOD and the 2004 BOD. Apparently not many ALPA members. Sounds like apathy...

Finally, in this current environment, it doesn't matter who the ALPA president is... there will be pilots whining about his pay. Your elected representatives have determined his pay. Why are they wrong? They have studied and addressed the issue. And they represent you. Perhpas you should take up the issue with them instead of ones and zeros on an internet site???

Regardless, your RJDC connection has tainted your well, you are spring loaded to the anti ALPA position. But I do agree with your last two sentences. If we are to change, grow and become better we must be informed.
 
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Rez O. Lewshun said:
Also, I'm not saying the compensation doesn't need to be cut. So let's cut it. I only hear whining about ALPA National compensation on moniker message boards and guys getting off the crew bus. Perhaps if more than 5% of the memebership showed up at LEC meetings, they could organize a drive to cut such compensation. So it is really just trash talking... If it was important there'd be a real push for change. So far it is just a distraction. The fight is out there not here...
Rez:
You nailed it....I can't tell you how may lec meetings I went to where there was ONLY the lec, myself and maybe 1 or 2 more pilots...Yet its easy for someone in the crew lounge to bitch and complain...This is where I want to bring up my pet peeves about what is going on, but as you pointed out, its a lot easier to sit behind the computer keyboard and complain about it than rather get involved...
In addition, the 2006 BOD is comming up.... here is your opportunity to right a wrong. One of two things will happen: however the democratic process will have run its course and I will ask you to stop pushing the issue for it will have been addressed. (including by not being addressed). It also shows who was(n't) paying attention at the 2002 BOD and the 2004 BOD. Apparently not many ALPA members. Sounds like apathy...
Again well stated.. How many members have told you "I can't because I'm too busy or I can't because of this or that.....If it means that much to you, make the time....I did!

Regardless, your RJDC connection has tainted your well, you are spring loaded to the anti ALPA position. But I do agree with your last two sentences. If we are to change, grow and become better we must be informed.

You can't argue with these idiots...Ford and company has them brainwashed. I am no fan of ALPA, trust me, but the morons that are officers in the rjdc, like joe merchant, are all about 1 thing....THEMSELVES...

737
 
737 Pylt said:
History is doing something...Insanity is doing it over and over expecting a different result!

It took a while, but I see that you've finally come to understand what the RJDC has been saying all along. Maybe you can explain it to the General now.....
 
Duane boy had the chance to refuse to sign off on mesa's contract in 2003. He didnt. They had a chance to take JO/Freedom on. ALPA and mesa folded. They claim the flying all would have gone to freedom. It couldnt have been transferred that fast. ALPA really dropped the ball because they were worried about their dues from majors and didnt give a crap about regionals. Now look this mess. Its nothing but concession city. Sorry but this "concern" came far too late. GAME OVER. Its every man for himself now and will be treated as such. He cant let some airlines take concessions to keep their flying and others not. He had his chance and he blew it. What is happening now at comair and other places is a direct result of piss poor decision making starting back in 2002. The airlines used 9/11 to scare everyone and it worked. I have no apologys anymore, there is no brotherhood only factions. Every man for himself should be the new motto of every airline pilot group. If you don't look out for yourself ALPA sure wont. They say every accident isnt one single mistake but a chain of events. This chain started 4 years ago and now its out of control. You can't blame it on any one incident in particular but now we are all in a fight tooth and nail to keep our flying.
 
79%N1 said:
Unfortunately when some groups stand strong, one will always cut them to get what is best for themselves. See PSA stabbing ALG and PDT in 2002, or Mesa undercutting everyone...,

El Ocho is correct.

Duane Woerth signed all of those contracts. Now, Duane is saying he will not sign, but, it seems he with holds his pen when it is convenient. It worked to destroy CC Air. I think if Duane can sink Mesaba and hand that flying off to NStar, he will do it.

The only answer is to end alter ego. Restoring the definition of "operational integration" in ALPA's Constitution is a good first step.

Rez O Lution (sp) writes like Duane Woerth is worth his income. In my opinion he has done more to destroy ALPA than any one person in this industry. He was not, and is not, up to the task. In large part because he lost his moral compas and lead us into a dog eat dog world where each MEC has become a predator and every pilot job a meal.

If I had my choice between flying with Frank Lorenzo and Duane Woerth, well it would be hard to make that choice.
 
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Juan_Tugo said:
It took a while, but I see that you've finally come to understand what the RJDC has been saying all along. Maybe you can explain it to the General now.....

Juan:
What has the rjdc done for you?? Again, I am NO fan of ALPA. DW should be ashamed taking (not accepting) the pay he gets. If you violate an FAR or bust an altitude, are you going to the rjdc to help you?? The rjdc officers care about nobody but themselves....They twist facts and tell lies....All they've done is ask for more documents and request more money to feed their hungry lawyer!
737
 
737 Pylt said:
Juan:
What has the rjdc done for you??
737

It's not about what they've done for me. My point is this: if you don't like the RJDC, take the energy you spend bashing them and use it to reform your union.

If the lawsuit didn't have merit the RJDC wouldn't be in a position to compel the production of the documents they're seeking. It does, they are, and ALPA's stonewalling speaks volumes about what those documents will reveal. Once you cut through all the specious rhetoric about Comair pilots wanting to move directly into the left seat of a widebody, all that's left is a simple DFR complaint that ALPA knows with absolute certainty that it has a tremendous amount of exposure to.

I don't technically have a dog in this fight, but I contribute to the RJDC because I believe that an effective pilot union is critical to the future of our industry, and I believe that ALPA in its current iteration has clearly lost its way. I also believe that ALPA's internal mechanisms have been co-opted by narrow interests and have broken down to the point that an environment where meaningful reform can be generated from within simply does not nor cannot exist. There's an amply documented record of the RJDC's forbears' fruitless attempts to effect change within the constraints of ALPA's political process.

An issue like DW's compensation is just a red herring. What really matters is that once-upon-a-time, ALPA decided that a group of second-class citizens in its ranks subject to a virtual B-scale was an acceptable state of affairs. Management was on that one like a ravenous dog on a T-bone, and mainline pilots grateful to have "captured" 100 seat flying at $92/hr. (in 2005 dollars, no less) was an entirely predictable consequence.

The distinction between the haves and have-nots in our industry has always been an artificial one. In the end, we're all just pilots. We could have all been "haves," but thanks to ALPA's obsession with maintaining the illusion of mainline exclusivity, we're all on our way to being "have-nots."
 
I agree with Juan, D'Angelo and the rest. There is a LOT of mistrust of alpa out there. They have let us all down. duane woerth should have his paycheck tied to the average pilot salary. When our wages go down, so does his.
 
Cadillac said:
I agree with Juan, D'Angelo and the rest. There is a LOT of mistrust of alpa out there. They have let us all down. duane woerth should have his paycheck tied to the average pilot salary. When our wages go down, so does his.

It is. It is tied to the highest 3 pay rates within ALPA. As concessionary contracts have been bargained, his pay has gone down accordingly.

-Neal
 
~~~^~~~ said:
El Ocho is correct.

Duane Woerth signed all of those contracts. Now, Duane is saying he will not sign, but, it seems he with holds his pen when it is convenient. It worked to destroy CC Air. I think if Duane can sink Mesaba and hand that flying off to NStar, he will do it.

The only answer is to end alter ego. Restoring the definition of "operational integration" in ALPA's Constitution is a good first step.

Rez O Lution (sp) writes like Duane Woerth is worth his income. In my opinion he has done more to destroy ALPA than any one person in this industry. He was not, and is not, up to the task. In large part because he lost his moral compas and lead us into a dog eat dog world where each MEC has become a predator and every pilot job a meal.

If I had my choice between flying with Frank Lorenzo and Duane Woerth, well it would be hard to make that choice.


That's all true, but Duane wouldn't have anything to sign if the Comair pilots hadn't taken concessions again.
 

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