Aloha ʻino Mesa! Shame On You!

[islandhopper]

I think the term is "pseudo-women" but I'm not sure.

I see that the AQ FAs caved yesterday and gave up their medical for retirees and have to pay for part of their medical coverage now.

http://starbulletin.com/print/2005.php?fr=/2005/11/16/business/story01.html

I wouldnt exactly say the FA's caved. Actually the company went with the FA's 16 day old offer "as is", just to make the pilots look like the only bad guys left. If anybody caved it was AQ management by taking a 16/17 day old offer with no further concessions.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Really? You're getting 90 seaters? Which? And when?

Scuttlebutt at Mesa is the only reason we're flying them in the first place is that the Am West pilot group wouldn't fly em for what your management was willing to pay. So I guess thats changed? . . . . Except how could it, because you're not exactly profitable . . . .

Not to be a prick (well, maybe a little), but I don't really believe it. I AM getting a little sick of AmWest pilots kissing my butt to get in the CRJ 900 jumpseat, then getting not-so-clever digs in return when I ask for some reciprocation . . .

We just voted for the pay rates on the EMB-190. It will pass and we will pick up our deliveries starting in 2008 (25 with options for 25-30 more). You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Where have you been? You need to do a little research before you say or post anything.

Trust me, our guys will fly them for lower pay if it means getting rid of Mesa. Unlike you we will eventually get the pay rates up. That's exactly why I, and several of my friends voted yes.

We're not exactly profitable?? Well the only reason you're around is because you're codesharing with us, so as far as you're concerned we're the most profitable airline around. BTW, I'm sure that your terrible performance helps drive our passengers to Southwest thus reducing our profit.

Sick of us kissing your butt to get in the jumpseat??? Ha!!! Don't flatter yourself. I would never kiss your butt to get in. I'll ask politely once and if you give me any attitude I'll tell you to screw yourself and find another way to get where I'm going. I would have no problem doing that right to your face.

We have several pilots who won't even consider riding on Mesa. They will drive two hours to an airport that is served by AWA just so they don't have to put up with guys like you.

Not to be a prick?? You sound like a prick to me. You wouldn't mind telling me who you are so I can welcome you into our jumpseat after you've kissed my butt?

I'm getting sick of Am West pilots blah blah blah. Stop whining...you're breaking my heart.

You got a problem with the fact that AWA management doesn't like you feel free to write to CEO Doug Parker or VP of Marketing Scott Kirby.

I told you in the first place that I was not attacking Mesa pilots. Didn't they teach you to read in Farmington???

 

[RJP]

I wouldnt exactly say the FA's caved. Actually the company went with the FA's 16 day old offer "as is", just to make the pilots look like the only bad guys left. If anybody caved it was AQ management by taking a 16/17 day old offer with no further concessions.

Call it what you want. After the beatings all your labor unions have taken, the threat of a 1113C and liquidation, etc, everything else that's given up is caving, whether it be large or small scale. I'm not bashing the FAs, they did what they thought was best for themselves, but they've left the pilot group standing alone with your johnsons flapping in the breeze. And, as you've said, the company will make you look like the bad guys that won't sign like everyone else.

Hang in there! No pun intended.

 

[synchoff]

We just voted for the pay rates on the EMB-190. It will pass and we will pick up our deliveries starting in 2008 (25 with options for 25-30 more). You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Where have you been? You need to do a little research before you say or post anything.

Trust me, our guys will fly them for lower pay if it means getting rid of Mesa.

Interesting. Thanks for the info on the ERJ 190. 2008 is a LONG way away though.

Now you're saying your 1st officers will accept a pay rate of $23k per year (re: "we'll fly em for lower pay before") . . . just to "get rid" of Mesa? HAH! I DON'T BELIEVE IT! You screwed up the CRJ 900, you'll do the same here.

ROTFLMAO! Now THAT'S a rational decision! Actually, it makes me happy, cuz that just shows you guys are so stupid you'll strike in a couple o'years, and that just means more outsourcing in the long run . . .

As to our performance . . . I just love looking at YOUR website for "ontime" percentages by YOUR flight numbers . . . 70%, 60%, 40% not uncommon . . . don't kid yourself, AmWest ain't called a "Big Mesa" for nothing . .

As to the implication that we're profitable because you pay the bills . . . that's true, sort of. If you could do it for cheaper, you would. You can't. Mesa provides an invaluable service to your company. Frankly, I've long believed that OUR low wages subsidize YOUR high wages . . . and the sad part is, yours aren't high anyway . . .

I'm not attacking AmWest pilots either . . . but I think it's safe to say that this whole mess is a marriage of convenience, not mutual affection . . .

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Interesting. Thanks for the info on the ERJ 190. 2008 is a LONG way away though.

Now you're saying your 1st officers will accept a pay rate of $23k per year (re: "we'll fly em for lower pay before") . . . just to "get rid" of Mesa? HAH! I DON'T BELIEVE IT! You screwed up the CRJ 900, you'll do the same here.

ROTFLMAO! Now THAT'S a rational decision! Actually, it makes me happy, cuz that just shows you guys are so stupid you'll strike in a couple o'years, and that just means more outsourcing in the long run . . .

As to our performance . . . I just love looking at YOUR website for "ontime" percentages by YOUR flight numbers . . . 70%, 60%, 40% not uncommon . . . don't kid yourself, AmWest ain't called a "Big Mesa" for nothing . .

As to the implication that we're profitable because you pay the bills . . . that's true, sort of. If you could do it for cheaper, you would. You can't. Mesa provides an invaluable service to your company. Frankly, I've long believed that OUR low wages subsidize YOUR high wages . . . and the sad part is, yours aren't high anyway . . .

I'm not attacking AmWest pilots either . . . but I think it's safe to say that this whole mess is a marriage of convenience, not mutual affection . . .

You are an idiot. I'm sorry but you are.

This rhetoric is not my opinion. This is what our management says about you. Do you understand this??? Our guys don't like you. They want to get rid of you. Scott Kirby said this. I was there.

For you to argue with me about AWA management's disapproval of MESA is pure stupidity.

We are going to fly the EMB-190's for less money than our 737, 757, and A-320 pay rates. The pay that we will take to fly the 90 seaters is still more than what you make. Basically our management has said, in so many words, that the pay will be roughly equal to what JetBlue will fly theirs for. If we are willing to fly them for that amount of money we will get the EMB-190's. If not they will let one of the regionals fly them. And I assure you that you would fly them for even less.

2008 is a long way away? I would think that too if I was flying at Mesa.

We're so stupid that will strike in a couple years??? This will lead to more outsourcing?? Huh?? I have a hard time believing that you have any idea what you are talking about.

Don't kid yourself...nobody refers to us as "Big Mesa". I've never even heard that before. Now I have heard you referred to as "Mesa...leading the race to the bottom".

We screwed up the CRJ-900? Well, out of all your babble that is the only true statement. All the majors would love to go back in time and get back the 50-90 seat jets.

We did drop the ball on the 90 seaters...and now we're stuck with Mesa. But I assure you that we aren't going to screw the EMB-190's up.

One thing is for sure. When we get the 190's we will eventually be able to bring the rates up. You never would.

"Frankly, I've long believed that OUR low wages subsidize YOUR high wages . . ." Huh?? Pilots wages were high long before the regoinals and the RJ fad were around. As you get jets our wages drop.

"and the sad part is, yours aren't high anyway . . ." Yeah...no thanks to you. (This applies to any Mainline/Regional relationship).

As an FO at AWA I still make more than any of your captains and I'm sure that I have better schedules.

You're right about one other thing, though. It is cheaper to have Mesa pilots fly jets for 23k per year. Who would argue with that? The sad thing is you say it with pride...like its a good thing. I had always hoped to make the big money in the airlines. But that won't happen as long as kids like you are willing to fly 90 seat jets for 23k per year (or less).

If you want to turn this into a Mesa pilots vs. AWA pilots bring it on.

Do you have any other enlightening info for me??

 

[islandhopper]

2008 is a long way away? I would think that too if I was flying at Mesa.

Don't kid yourself...nobody refers to us as "Big Mesa". I've never even heard that before.

You're right about one other thing, though. It is cheaper to have Mesa pilots fly jets for 23k per year. Who would argue with that? The sad thing is you say it with pride...like its a good thing. I had always hoped to make the big money in the airlines. But that won't happen as long as kids like you are willing to fly 90 seat jets for 23k per year (or less).

My comments... 2008 is just a heartbeat away. 911 happened over FOUR years ago! It seems like yesterday still.

I have heard AWA referred to as "Big Mesa" before. Usually from Mesa pilots. But its an old used stab. It was funny the first time. All the old mesa jokes are no longer funny. Your CEO is out of control. He needs his wings clipped, period.

Synchoff gets his feathers fluffed for the wrong reasons. We all want to be proud of where we work, thats natural, it creates a bit of a conundrum for the mesa pilot. He will work it out one day I am sure of it.

 

[OB-CPO]

islandhopper your information on mesa is right on. They are trying to score on aloha. Send ornstien some of peles lava rocks in the mail and tell him they are Hawaii good luck charms. He can put one on his desk, one in the wifes bathroom, hang one from his rear view mirror in the new car, his kids backpack, you get the idea.

Its about time mesa get some of what they have dished out all these years.

 

[synchoff]

You are an idiot. I'm sorry but you are.

If you want to turn this into a Mesa pilots vs. AWA pilots bring it on.

Do you have any other enlightening info for me??

Heheheh. I guess I struck a nerve there . . . . as did you to me.

Let's smokum peace pike, and agree that Mesa is cheap, and you get what you pay for?

Or, we can just trade flame for awhile, where ultimately you call me a Mesa-lifer (shudder!), and I call you another wanna-be (but never will be) Southwest pilot?

 

[synchoff]

Synchoff gets his feathers fluffed for the wrong reasons. We all want to be proud of where we work, thats natural, it creates a bit of a conundrum for the mesa pilot.

LOL! God, ain't THAT the truth! Kind like trying to be proud of having the cleanest garbage truck in New Jersey or something!

 

[synchoff]

Don't kid yourself...nobody refers to us as "Big Mesa". I've never even heard that before. Now I have heard you referred to as "Mesa...leading the race to the bottom".

Actually, the America West = "Big Mesa" is kind of an inside joke thing at MAG. Specifically, pretty much everyone I know who's gone on to AW describes AW as a "Big Mesa". In other words, better, much not all THAT much better.

IHopper knows of what I speak. And yeah, I know it's an old, extremely worn out dig, but new to the flightinfo.

 

[Earl Williams]

Fly-n-hi, please don't feel that the words (and opinion) of synchoff represent the pilots of Mesa. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I think I speak for the pilot group here in saying that none of us want to fly the 190's because we're well aware of the low-balled rate that we would inevitably be forced to fly them for. Our reputation doesn't need to be tarnished any further.

As a group, the Mesa pilots that I've had an opportunity to fly with are some of the hardest working people I have had the pleasure to work with. We realize that there is a belief (and rightfully so) that Mesa provides poor service. Believe me, nothing is more upsetting to us than having to push late due to yet another mechanical problem, or a crew swap that could have been more proactively handled by scheduling, or whatever other reason is responsible for our delay. It's just unfortunate that the company refuses to spend any money to fix the problems that we incur on a daily basis. But I certainly understand why AWA (as well as our other codeshare partners) is more than displeased at our performance, and would like nothing better than to replace us with some other carrier. AWA would have every right to do just that, and I almost think JO needs something drastic like that to help him understand the problem (IF he's capable of doing so!)

I've always been treated in the utmost professional manner by AWA crews in the few times that I've requested a ride to/from work. And all of you AWA guys and gals will be welcomed anytime you wish to ride along with us. That is, if you can tolerate having to ride in a CRJ! (avoid the jumpseat unless you're capable of withstanding extreme cramping of your extremeties).

Blue skies,
-Earl

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Earl Williams,

Thanks.

I originally stated that our management is not pleased with Mesa the company. Some people hear that and they think that it is an attack on them personally...as if I'm saying they are bad pilots or something. I'm just the messenger.

P.S.

I've always had good experiences with the Mesa pilots.

 

[synchoff]

We just voted for the pay rates on the EMB-190. It will pass and we will pick up our deliveries starting in 2008 (25 with options for 25-30 more).

Not disputing this point! HOWEVER . .. . I just looked at the Embraier website, and I don't see any outstanding orders for either the EMB-190 or EMB-170 listed for America West OR USAirways (yes, I know its all LCC now, but I don't know how often Embraier updates their website)

Also, I'd think that the majority of this flying will probably go to AirWisconsin or Republic anyway. They didn't dump a cool 500 million into this deal for nothing, you know. I suspect they're gonna call "dibs" on any planes that can be called a "regional" aircraft.

(and no, I don't think a E190 is a "regional", but then I don't think the term "regional" means anything anymore anyway)

 

[Fly-n-hi]

It's not on the Embraer site because the orders are conditional. We have to vote yes for the payrates (which we will).

Air Wiskey doesn't get dibs on any of the flying. Nor does Mesa. That's not how it works.

I'm actually starting to think this thread is one big joke. synchoff, are you just pulling my chain or something?

I'm finished with this thread.