All Regional Airline Pilots cost Jobs

[MiniMeGotWings]

i would agree with publisher that the wages for an rj pilot flying at a major carrier would not be as high as on say a mad dog or a 737, but they would fall under the same contractual work rule provisions as the other pilots and i can assure you most major airlines lead the pack in terms of work rules...pick any regional and ask a pilot if they would, sight unseen, trade contracts with any major pilot (compensation remains the same). their are a finite amount of seats that are demanded by the public. an rj makes sense in some markets. wouldn't it be better for that rj to be flown at a major airline where the pay is substatially higher, the works rules are better, and the opportunity for advancement exists? by allowing the regionals to grow at the expense of the majors has created more net pilot jobs, but these jobs are at a lower wage and with fewer advancement options. alpa could have insured major airline growth by requiring all jet aircraft to be flown by the majors at a negotiated pay rate agreeable by both mgt. and the respective airline's pilots. i'm a card carrying, due paying alpa member myself, but i'm not afraid to say that we all dropped the ball on this one years ago.

 

[Publishers]

subsidy

One of you hit it on the head. The fact is that many routes are subsidized by the major carrier. That is obviously based on the fare that they can sustain plus the loads from that market.

The things that make up the cost of this operation go well beyond pilots. If you had it under the mainline, maintenance, and all the other costs may also increase. Your better work rules usually results in less productivity and higher cost. This alos goes to an argument from another thread over flight attendants. The fact is that when you have the system we have now, a flight attendant can reach a pay rate well in excess of what the job should pay and for which there would be an ample supply of people to do the job.

While it is changing, a career in regionals was more or less not the objective. In effect, it was to be a high turnover, lower paying job. That made it economical for the major to sup-port.

 

[Caveman]

Dogg,

I seem to remember in the past couple of years that something like 40+% of Comair's pax never see the inside of a mainline a/c. I may have gotten it backwards and it's only 40+% get to see the mainline a/c. In any case this is a number that I remember hearing from one of the Comair suits. Take it with a grain of salt.

Caveman

 

[smellthejeta]

Dogg,

I seem to remember in the past couple of years that something like 40+% of Comair's pax never see the inside of a mainline a/c. I may have gotten it backwards and it's only 40+% get to see the mainline a/c. In any case this is a number that I remember hearing from one of the Comair suits. Take it with a grain of salt.

Caveman

Caveman,

I would believe those numbers. If the ratio of checked bags is a decent correlation to the total pax distribution, I would say 40% of those pax at ACA don't see a mainline aircraft on any particular trip. I once postulated that percentage and later on heard from some suit that it was rather accurate.

What is hard to determine, though, is if a pax flies on the RJ because it's DLC branded or UAX branded, or because it goes where the pax want to go. I.e., I've heard some people say that the only reason they fly ACA is because it is the UA brand. When ACA goes at it alone, forget it. I suppose flying from say BDL to JAX, that you could reasonably expect people to book connections in EWR, IAD, PHL, CLT, and ATL. (Not saying that all airlines with hubs in those cities serve the BDL-JAX market, I'm just postulating what a reasonable connection would be) CLE and PIT are starting to stretch it, but what about DTW and ORD? How far out of your way would you be willing to go to fly on a "real" jet? I.e., if you can take ACA from BDL-IAD-JAX, would you fly mainline instead from BDL-ORD-JAX?

As far as "route subsidies" or what have you go, the term you are looking for is "network contribution." First, not just regional routes are "subsidized." Look at all of the Florida markets. Do you think those legs in and of themselves make a ton of money? No. But they can feed high revenue routes and at the very least cover the marginal operational costs of the flight. If you cover your operating costs, at least it is worthwhile to fly the flight.

Truly subsidized routes are EAS routes, and that has nothing to do with the airline and everything to do with communities subsidizing those routes. Obviously, UA finds benefit from ACA flying CHO and RIC to IAD.

 

[Publishers]

contribution

You are right that I was talking about network contribution to some extent. The point being that the major carrier is guaranteeing the regional X amount on the route passengers or not. One of the advantages to the major is that often his commitment on a route is not that long. If things do not work out, he can move on. This is another advantage as it is easier than if you had main line people there.

The whole concept was developmental at a reasonable cost. You could use the cheap way to get into a market.

Branding is very important to the cause. I would say the average passenger does not know what is going to be at the gate awaiting them unless they fly a route all the time. Anymore it is schedule, price, brand.

 

[markpilot]

The easiest way to settle this problem is for the Regional seniority lists to be integrated into the Major lists. This way, we can all call ourselves "Major" pilots and immediately eliminate all the "Regional" positions!

Problem solved!

 

[Publishers]

idea

And just how do you account for the fact that some of the regionals have been spun off and others fly for several carriers. For if you only dealt with the wholly owned, you would make them not competitive with the others.

 

[rumorhasit]

Within most of your careers(20-30yrs from now) you will see regionals flying most all the domestic(with a few to mex/can) and the majors flying international and long routes such as nyc to lax...It is a fact of life coming to a sky near you. That is why Regional Pilot contracts are so important to lay down rules and pay for the future.

The Airlines and unions have already opened Pandora's box...Now the industry must eat the $hit sandwich.....

 

[Mike72]

ALL!

Please ignore any comments with my username. I just logged in and I see someone has stolen my password and is posting nasty things on here. I have changed my password, and I apologize to everyone.