All Regional Airline Pilots cost Jobs

[WrightAvia]

I suppose a complete ban on Part 135 and 91 flying will be next, as well as banning the Fractionals...maybe even pass a law to prevent people from flying themselves.

 

[WhiteCloud]

A fine a piece of flame bait crap as I have ever seen.

It was flame bait and here's some more. Major airline pilots have no one to blame for the existence of Regional airlines except themselves. Do they take the stand that ALL flying for Delta, UAL or whoever will be done by their airline or their seniority list? Nope. Are they willing to strike until that happens? Nope. That's why the regionals exist.

 

[DoinTime]

Regional flying is done by major airlines giving that flying for several reasons, cities that cannot fill or support a major airline aircraft, perhaps the city is a start-up city and Regionals are used to test the water, or perhaps the airport itself cannot support a major airline aircraft. So, the major airline will GIVE this flying to a regional. Many airlines have started their own regional airlines as well as having gone to outside sources which can specialize their flying in this area.

Major airline pilots have 'sold' their regional flying for negotiating leverage in THEIR working agreements. Frankly, I'm a little PISSED that you chose to sell my future as an airline pilot to pad your extravagant lifestyle. Contracting out mainline brand turbojet service should have been a nonstarter in any working agreement talks but all you saw was dollar $ign$.

Regional airlines, and their pilots, have little to no control over anything. We only do what is allowed by mainline and their various work groups. If mainline pilots have a problem with regional flying I suggest you take it up with your MEC as they are the ones that are the cause of our existence.

 

[jarhead]

DoinTime

Just to correct an erroneous impression you may have. The starter of this "flame" post is NOT a mainline pilot. BE90CPT has not much in his profile, but he does state he is 29 years of age. Hardly enough experience in the business to evoke a lot of confidence in his skewed view.

 

[greyhound]

Don't worry BE90CPT....

Give it a few more years when RJ captains make more money. Then the majors (and regionals) will realize that the longer people stay at the regionals, the more you have to pay them. All of a sudden the regionals will no longer be a “cheaper” alternative since crews will get senior and earn more money.
Also, as travelers slowly return to the airlines, I think we may see a 737 or an Md-80 return to where three RJ’s used to operate. (I hope)
BTW, It is very wrong to blame it on the pilots of the regionals.

 

[JohnDoe]

Geezzz....... yet another mudslinging mainline vs regional thread.

I know I'm gonna sound like a broken record here.......but,

Why don't you all use the time to write your senators about this cabotage issue that is up for vote soon in the Senate. If it passes, I don't care what airline you fly for, it could end up screwing us ALL in the years to come.

If people in this forum used half the time they spent slinging crap, every senator out there would be bombarded with e-mails fighting this by now...........

 

[GogglesPisano]

Some of you can't recognize blatanat flamebait when you see it. BE90CPT is sitting in front of his PC with a jar a vaseline getting off on all of this.

 

[Networ-King]

Well..... We all know this was flame bait from the get go, but we still continue to feed this thread.....

I guess everyone has an opinion so heres my .01 1/2 cents.....

JMHO....... but....


SO FAR YOU GUYS ARE ALL WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its not any Major airlines fault and its not any Regional airlines fault.......

ITS ALPA'S FAULT........

For not taking this whole freaking whipsawing thing and getting rid of it in the first place. Why is it that ALPA dropped the d a m n ball and said no to merging the lists of the WO and the majors. Why is it that the majority of the airlines in the US are ALPA and yet there is so many different payscales for the same airplane with the same UNION? Does the ELECTRICIANS union have different hourly rates for putting in the same equipment? ALPA should have gotten off their high and mighty A$$E$ and taken care of this way back when. Instead look what they have produced......

your a regional pilot...... no im not....yes you are....no im not..... jesus..... just listen to us all fighting amongst ourselves like a bunch of little school kids.

I think ALPA needs to grow a pair and have a MALPA and a RALPA

Major Airline Pilot Ass. and Regional Airline Pilot Ass....

Regionals being limited to 70 seater for ALL OUR futures and careers and anything over that would be Majors.

You gotta have a regional alpa, since all regionals are not going to be WO'd.

Then you have to settle an industry wide paysacle for the 19 seater all the way up to the 550 seater. This would benefit all the alpa carriers and management wouldn't grow "contract" regionals. If they want a 50 seater for a certain route, well fine then..... put comair or ASA or AWAC or Mesaba or ALG or PSA on there because they cost the same as TSA or SKW or MESA. CHQ....teamsters???? dunno???? You guys getting my drift? Don't have all the kinks worked out yet, but heck this make alot more sense then whats happening right now.

Now don't beat me up too bad here..... JMHO K?

 

[General Lee]

Well, more RJs and less mainline aircraft would mean less jobs for Mainline pilots, but that is managments doing. They like the lower cost structure of the regionals (which is still falling at this time), and would rather have a smaller mainline. That is where ALPA is the only thing saving us at the time. Some of their practices are interesting at times, but they are the only ones to protect us. Yes, they should have not made such a dividing line in the past with the RJs---and they should have integrated them into the mainline fleets---which would have created more jobs at the mainline level. Now they have to deal with that--and have to decide if some newer RJs can be negotiated for in the next mainline contracts. I don't think limiting aircraft to runway length is a great idea either----then Orange County, California (5700 ft) would have only RJs or Brasilias......


Hey, Networ-King---I like that avitar.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BE90CPT]

Well, more RJs and less mainline aircraft would mean less jobs for Mainline pilots, but that is managments doing. They like the lower cost structure of the regionals (which is still falling at this time), and would rather have a smaller mainline. That is where ALPA is the only thing saving us at the time. Some of their practices are interesting at times, but they are the only ones to protect us. Yes, they should have not made such a dividing line in the past with the RJs---and they should have integrated them into the mainline fleets---which would have created more jobs at the mainline level. Now they have to deal with that--and have to decide if some newer RJs can be negotiated for in the next mainline contracts. I don't think limiting aircraft to runway length is a great idea either----then Orange County, California (5700 ft) would have only RJs or Brasilias......


Hey, Networ-King---I like that avitar.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Finally someone that understands what I was trying to say.

I am not blaming fellow pilots for what is happening. However Mainline unions could have had a little forsight and included the idea of RJ jets in contract. As said, it would have created more jobs.

Thanks General Lee for reading into what I was saying!

 

[belchfire]

BE 90

Why didn't you just say that in the
first place instead of blaming pilots
for stealing other pilots jobs?

The bottom line is, no majors, no
regionals (we have to see how that
works in the future). When more than
one regional tries to get out from under
the codeshare and flying on their own,
going mano-a-mano with the traditional
"major" lines (and beating them) you
can fuss about costing mainline jobs.
It's called the free market at that point,
and SWA, ATA, AirTran and Jet Blue are
doing it right now. Are you mad at them
for stealing jobs from Big D, AA and NW?
Cause they are. And again, it's the free
market...and I would go to work for any of
those four tomorrow.

 

[MiniMeGotWings]

General Lee is right again

ALPA dropped the ball years ago by not insisting that all jet flying go to mainline carriers. more planes=more jobs. it would have negated the need for most of the scope language that currently prohibits the growth of regional partners. it would have done away with the need for flow through. heck it might have even gone a long way towards acheiving world peace. mesa could no longer plunder smaller, weaker companies. smaller cities would still have service, and mgt. couldn't whipsaw pilot groups with threats of moving their flying to another certificate. the only problem now is the damage has been done. regionals have grown at the expense of shrinking seniority lists at majors. if we could only turn back the clock...

 

[Publishers]

AH

AH! The problem with this thinking is that it assumes that the market stayed the same all the time. It also assumes that if these jobs were part of a "major" carrier that it would carry wages and benefits of a major carrier.

I would suggest that this may not be the case at all. In fact, it may not have let the regionals develop like they have. To serve this feed there may have been even less magor airline flying and hence less quality jobs.

 

[DoinTime]

Both of these quotes come from the same man's mouth only 5.5 hours apart:

11-05-2003 13:00

MY POINT IS, WHETHER YOU FLY FOR COMMAIR, MESA, ACA, CHQ, ALG, ETC... ANY AND ALL FLYING YOU ARE DOING COMES AT A COST TO A MAJOR AIRLINE PILOT. So why you are congradulating yourselves on how great you are, keep those facts in your mind. Send a thank you note to a furloughed major airline pilot thanking THEM for your job.

11-05-2003 18:33

I am not blaming fellow pilots for what is happening. However Mainline unions could have had a little forsight and included the idea of RJ jets in contract. As said, it would have created more jobs.

Thanks BE90CPT on showing us how to talk out of both sides of your mouth. You should be in airline management.

ITS ALPA'S FAULT........

I want everyone to stop and think for a second on who ALPA is. Better yet, who ALPA was 10 years ago when these decisions that we live with today were being made.

 

[dogg]

Hey as long as were on another round and round regional vs major deal, I have a question. Does anyone have an idea at the big regionals that are WO, how many pax never see a mainline A/C. Trying to figure out the whole profit vs loss picture and am wondering how many seats are a subsidy to put pax on a mainline A/C and how many pax come and go strictly on the WO A/C............