ALG to FLOPs

[toa2mdt]

FLOPs People,

Eric in HR called me today, twice. I need to make some sort of decicion before calling him back on Monday.

I am at Allegheny flying the Dash, you know? The ones always in your way? I've been here for almost 6 years. Merger with PDT and survival is not what I want to talk about in the cockpit anymore. I live in OMA and commute to LGA. Thats just the beginning.

What is first year pay really like? What are health benefits really like from a family point of view. My wife is preg. with twins also. Yes, they are mine! Mnay other benefit questions.

Can I call any of you? I need to get the answers ASAP before calling FLOPs back.

Thanks

 

[JetCapt69]

more pros than cons

Flight Options is a good place to work in my opinion. I have been there over 4 years and left the regionals for here.

Pay starts around $36k base in small cabin a/c, plus $40.80/day per diem. Base pay depends on aircraft type. Insurance benefits are not bad. If you have really good insurance, you might consider keeping it until after your kids are born (congrats by the way). 8 day on schedule, 7 days off. Only drawback is your seniority number (900 range). I wouldn't expect to upgrade for at least 3 years, unless hiring skyrockets. After around the 5 year mark, you will be making captains pay anyway, so if seat position doesn't matter to you, then this shouldn't bother you. We usually swap seats every other leg. SIC's must occupy the right seat on pax legs but are free to fly left seat on empty legs (current SOP policy). Currently Options is non-union. The IBT has been petitioning the pilot group for about 1.5 yrs. So far there hasn't been enough cards returned to prompt a vote.

Have you interviewed yet? If you haven't, GO TO the interview. Transportation to the interview, rental car and hotel will be paid for by Options. Eric will explain everything to you. He will actually start out by telling you why you shouldn't come to work at Options. If you leave the interview with any questions, then you didn't ask them, cause it is a day long process. I read through the SOP's, benefits, pay scales, etc.

I am sure you will get several responses from many people. It is ultimately up to you and your wife to decide what is best for you and your family.

Good luck! Hope to see you on the line with us!

 

[PHX767]

One thing to consider is if the pregnancy will be considered a pre-existing condition as far as the health plan goes.

You obviously have a contact at FO - No other way to get an interview. Have a long talk with your pal to make sure you truly understand all of the duties, nice and not so nice. Its way different than airline life, even regionals.

First year income is about equivelant to a $50K salary with the per diem being tax free. On paper it's $32K. My take home is about $1,200 twice a month, and I take the max 401k deduction, but no medical.

Some guys are unable to provide a Doctor in their area that takes the medical plan.

 

[Heavy Set]

Unfortunately, ALG may not be around much longer - the Dashes are on the way out anyway... I have heard great things about FLOPS. You could likely live in OMA and have a week off at a time - probably a better schedule than ALG.

If you are offered a job at FLOPS and the medical insurance issue is ok, then I would go quickly. You will fly nice jet equipment and fly a much better variety of routes. A lot of pilots, including myself, would love to go to FLOPS - you are lucky.

Let us know your decision - good luck (with the decision and the twins)!

 

[FracCapt]

As somebody already stated - check into whether or not the pregnancy would be considered a pre-existing condition - and whether or not it would be covered. Our insurance company is United Healthcare...our plan is the "Options PPO" according to my medical card. Maybe contacting them would be the first order of business Monday morning. Their website is www.myuhc.com.

Apparently you know somebody to have gotten the interview. Talk to your friend. Have him tell you about his last few tours. Ask about his worst tour. Ask about his best. You'll get a better feel for what a typical frac pilot day is(if there is a typical day for us).

OMA is definitely qualified as a domicile. 3 airlines, 6 flights a day is all it takes. They require that you live within an hour of the airport. They actually plug your address and the airport into mapquest to make sure it is within that hour....or very close to it, at least.

I can't really help you with the pay issue....I have no idea exactly what newhires are making these days. Some others that have been hired more recently than I can help you there. The perdiem is 40.80 a day, based on a 16.6 day/month average. You will get 338.64 in perdiem(untaxable) each pay period, which are twice a month(15th and last day of the month). You get perdiem whether you are out on the road flying your butt off and getting every meal catered, sitting in a hotel in some strange city having to buy your own meals, or sitting at home. You even get perdiem when on vacation.

If you have any interest whatsoever in working here(which I assume you do by asking these questions), go to the interview. Ask all these questions there. They will be able to answer them better than we can...especially the HR people regarding the insurance stuff.

PM me if I can answer any more questions.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Pregnancy isn't a pre-existing condition. It's part of that Hippa thing. Don't know anymore about it, but federal law made it a non-pre-existing condition.

One correction, Frac Capt. You actually don't get per diem while on vacation, but if you call in sick you do!!

 

[FracCapt]

One correction, Frac Capt. You actually don't get per diem while on vacation, but if you call in sick you do!!

In nearly 5 years here I have gotten my perdiem everytime I went on vacation. I take off two tours a year. My most recent was in Jan/Feb. Have you not received perdiem when you were on vacation?

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Yeah, I took two tours off last year and didn't receive per diem for either of them. Another guy I know complained about having to take time off for his wife's surgery because he'd have to be home and lose per diem. Maybe they like you Hawker guys better!!!

 

[FracCapt]

It may have something to do with DOH. Maybe the computers aren't smart enough to figure out when to take perdiem away from us if we've been here over X amount of time. Since I've been with the company, we've had 2 or 3 computer system(software) changes...maybe something got screwed up during those changes. Who knows.

 

[Dep676]

I have gotten per-diem for vacation as well.

 

[guido411]

toa2mdt,

Respectfully, if you do not want to go to your interview, could you call Eric and have him change the name on your free airline ticket, free rental car, and free hotel room to mine? Really you're only out the time it takes to call ALG and tell them you're taking a vacation day. There are people dying to get that interview, if you didn't think you wanted it then you shouldn't have had your friend go to bat for you. I think it's obvious that you DO want the interview or you wouldn't have asked for one. You won't have to make a decision on the spot either (the way I understand they give you a call in a few days). So by all means GO, and good luck! I hope to see you on the line sometime. When Eric calls I'll be there with bells on.

 

[toa2mdt]

ok Guys,

Thank you so much for your answers. everyone was dead on with their info. eric called me today and had a nice interview/info talk and i'm head there on the 19th of this month. the next class is april 26th but i might opt for the may 24th to give me more time to set this thing up.

thanks for all your great help.

mjm

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

the next class is april 26th but i might opt for the may 24th to give me more time to set this thing up.

Just a word of advice. It seems to me you are putting the cart a wee bit before the horse. How about you interview first. THEN if they like you and you get hired (keep in mind, it's not an automatic job offer) you worry about a class date? I suggest you check the ego at the door of headquarters before you talk to anyone there.

That being said, good luck with the interview.

 

[toa2mdt]

nah nah nah,
don't get me wrong. I'm pretty humble, eric told me which class dates they had coming up. i told him that i'd be honest and if interviewed and then IF hired then i'd would love the may class. late april is just to soon for my speed. not saying that i'm challenged in any way, just i'm a planner. believe me, after almost 6 years at ALG i still have the butterfies at 6 month pc's. anyway, thanks for the ego check. i appreciate it, really. i'm just excited.

mjm

 

[JetCapt69]

When are your kids due? Make sure your wife is well aware that you will be gone for 8 days, but that home for 7 days is awesome. Plus, when you take a vacation, you essentially get 3 weeks off. 7-8-7.

I recommended a good friend of mine. He accepted the job. Same boat you are in with the twins. Well, after a year with the company, his wife couldn't cope with the 8 days away and he quit. He took another regional job only to have them fold shortly after. Options did not hire him back.

"What's the number to that truck driving school Mav?"

 

[WileE]

When I went in.

I interviewed on a monday and Eric asked me at the end of the interview if I was available to start class in two weeks. My answer was something like "hmmm... Hell yes!"

I think if I had told him I had to think about it I'd still have gotten the next class, but don't count on having a couple days before you are even asked the question.

 

[Heavy Set]

What aircraft will FLOPS likely hire into? Any predictions for these latest newhires - what will they likely fly first? What about the Citation X - have FLOPS guys replaced the Swift pilots and started to bid into the X?

Good news about the interviews.

 

[JetCapt69]

small cabin

Most (not all, always exceptions) new hires will go to the small cabin aircraft, CJ, Hawker 400XP, KA.

All start at the same pay level. Swift is still driving the 10's. Word is they are not that hot an item for sales.

My guess is we will never take control of them. I assume they are still leased, without outright ownership, I would expect Swift to continue flying them. (my opinion)

 

[FracCapt]

Re: small cabin

My guess is we will never take control of them. I assume they are still leased, without outright ownership, I would expect Swift to continue flying them. (my opinion)

According to one of the salesmen I talked to a short while ago, they are supposed to push the 800XP as much as possible to people going for the mid size cabins. He said they were given the impression that they are to do "whatever it takes" to talk owners out of the X, and into the XP. Of course, it makes sense from the companys standpoint...the new XP sells for less money, but more profit - and their pushing Raytheon product instead of Cessna. The biggest problem with the X is that if the fleet were to start growing very rapidly, they would be buying most of the X's on the used market, driving the price up quite a bit.

 

[Live4flyng]

The biggest problem with the X is that if the fleet were to start growing very rapidly, they would be buying most of the X's on the used market, driving the price up quite a bit.

The biggest problem with the X is FLOPS doesn't own or operate any. There isn't much profit to be made when you hire a 135 operator (SWIFT) to do your trips for you. That would be a huge reason why the salespeople are pushing the 800XP. Time is money in this business making the X very popular, and the 800XP won't substitute that.

 

[FracCapt]

The biggest problem with the X is FLOPS doesn't own or operate any. There isn't much profit to be made when you hire a 135 operator (SWIFT) to do your trips for you. That would be a huge reason why the salespeople are pushing the 800XP. Time is money in this business making the X very popular, and the 800XP won't substitute that.

How many used X's are there on the market? I stand by my original comment. There are so few used X's out there(remember, it is a used airplane program - not new) that buying a bunch of them would drive the price through the roof.

The original plan was for FO to crew the aircraft once we had sold the first 5. Then the new Raytheon management came in, and, of course, it didn't make sense to them to be selling Cessna products. No, the XP doesn't substitute for the X if somebody is after sheer speed, or is just one of those people that wants to be able to say they own (a share of) the fastest bizjet on the market. I don't doubt for a second that if FO management thought they could sell a bunch of X's for a decent profit, and keep the costs reasonable, they would be pushing the X pretty hard since nothing else yet fills that niche.

Actually, I know the real reason they're not pushing the X's. Why would they want to sell a bunch of them when FO is about to buy a company that operates the largest fleet of X's in the world? After all, why else would RTS have been in CGF but to sell all the aircraft and owner contracts before the NJA pilots can strike? Better keep your resumes up to date.

 

[NJAowner]

X vs XP

Speed is not the only major difference betweenthe X and XP. The X can seat 8 in a double club comfortably,while the XP squeezes in 8 into a couch (or in th ejet world, divan) for 3. Also, the XP has barely has room for a briefcase and no aft luggage while the X has plenty of aft storage. If you fly with 5 or more, and/or have luggage, the XP is not a substitute for the X. If you fly with 3 or 4 with little or no luggage, you can get by on the XP. Since 50% of the time I fly for vacations with my family and luggage, I can never take an XP.

Now, Chuck, commence flaming. There isn't much flame bait there, but I am sure you will find it (just being sarcastic!!).

Fly safe.

 

[Live4flyng]

Hey Chuck,

He was comparing the 800XP and the X, not the XL and the X. So you are both right and can stop quibbling now .

Actually, I know the real reason they're not pushing the X's. Why would they want to sell a bunch of them when FO is about to buy a company that operates the largest fleet of X's in the world? After all, why else would RTS have been in CGF but to sell all the aircraft and owner contracts before the NJA pilots can strike? Better keep your resumes up to date.

That is a foolish statement if you think about what you just said. If I were RTS, I would sell Options the whole fleet of X's and the contracts too. NJA has already made it's money on the sale of the X's. If they sold the fleet to Options, it would probably drive you out of business since the contracts are different. It would be very costly at the end of those contracts when Options had to buy the airplanes back from the owners. Just to entertain your argument, if Options were to try and buy NJA, I would find a different job. That would be the day that Fractionals have failed all together and it's time to move on. I'm not worried about that though, because the business models are completely different between NJA and FLOPS. NJA buys a large order of airplanes at a reduced cost and makes a little money on the sale. FLOPS buys used airplanes and spends large amounts of money on paint and interior. If you spend $4 million on a used airplane and another $250K in paint and interior, you still have a $4 million dollar airplane starting operations with a loss. It's a very flawed business plan. My resume is always up to date, is yours?

 

[cgmason1]

Hey Chuck,

He was comparing the 800XP and the X, not the XL and the X. So you are both right and can stop quibbling now .

Your right I was thinking XL vs X not 800XP vs X.
My apologies.
Your 100% right the 800XP's cargo/luggage capacity is next to nothing in comparison-unless you strap stuff to the couch.

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[Frac Daddy]

NJA buys a large order of airplanes at a reduced cost and makes a little money on the sale. FLOPS buys used airplanes and spends large amounts of money on paint and interior. If you spend $4 million on a used airplane and another $250K in paint and interior, you still have a $4 million dollar airplane starting operations with a loss. It's a very flawed business plan. My resume is always up to date, is yours?

Wrong. The vast majority of the recent shares that have been sold recently (read: since Raytheon took back over two years ago) have been in new aircraft. (400XP, 800XP, Legacy, etc.) You can go on believing whatever you want, though. Oh, and if you couldn't tell by all the smiley faces in FracCapt's post, he was joking about FLOPS buying NJA. You got wound up about nothing. For what it is worth, everybody should have there resume up to date in this business. Yes, even those at mighty NetJets.

 

[xrated]

Fact is, of the five X's operated for Flops, two are owned by Flops. The other three are leased/chartered. There does seem to be a fair amount of interest in the X from owners and we do quite a few demos. As far as comparing the X to the XP, simply put, there is no comparison. I'm not familiar with the price difference between the two, but if Flops wants to push the XP and not the X, better keep the owners out of the X. "ALL" and I mean every single Hawker owner we fly, love the X.

 

[Live4flyng]

Well,

I didn't get wound up about anything, just talking about the differences between the two businesses. Wasn't trying to start a pissing contest, so everyone can relax. You are right FRAC, everyone should have their resumes up to date in this business, and that is what I said. If you were offered a job flying for U.S. Airways tomorrow, would you take it? I know I wouldn't since they may not be in business much longer. Same thing is true in this business, you have to be prepared for anything. It seems very coincidental to me that the same company who just made a huge deal with NJA, is the same company that "The vast majority of the recent shares that have been sold recently (read: since Raytheon took back over two years ago) have been in new aircraft. (400XP, 800XP, Legacy, etc.)". If you can't see something happening between RTN and NJA, then you don't want to see it.

 

[Frac Daddy]

It seems very coincidental to me that the same company who just made a huge deal with NJA, is the same company that "The vast majority of the recent shares that have been sold recently (read: since Raytheon took back over two years ago) have been in new aircraft. (400XP, 800XP, Legacy, etc.)". If you can't see something happening between RTN and NJA, then you don't want to see it.

No, it has nothing to do with me "not wanting to see it." How is it that you, a line regular line pilot have this ability to see what is happening at the upper levels of management at my company? It really has to do with Joe-Schmoe line pilots (much like myself) on this board always claiming to have insight at what is going on at the upper-levels of managment. Sorry, but I doubt you have Santulli on speed dial. I only know what I said about our sales because I have talked to a few of our salesman. Beyond that, I know nothing. Nada. Zilch. Nor do I pretend to know where either company will be in five years from now. And what is this about a job at US Air? Where did that come from?

 

[Apeman]

Why don't you both open up a can of "shut the he// up! Your like a couple barbie dolls for christ sake! Be happy your working for whoever it is your working for---and be done with it.

 

[toa2mdt]

by i didn't mean to start anything like this!

anyhow, i go in on mon and interview tues. sounds like a real good deal to me. i have heard to study eagle and aspen charts. does anyone have these? can you send them via email in pdf or any other form, scan?

thanks for the help. didnt mean to start that thing about the X, XL and what not.

[email protected]

mike miller