Alcohol banned while on company time...

[ultrarunner]

Ya know, it just might happen. I suppose it's not been discussed outside of closed doors because no one know's how they would police it. But here is some food for thought....


As more and more of these 'under the influence' incidents take place, the flying public is going to have very little respect for us as a group...NOR SHOULD THEY.

More and more "PAYING passengers will ask the #1 FA as they board "were the pilots given a sobriety test after they checked in?" You're only going to be able to pull so many of these people off the plane that ask this very legitment question (as was the case soon after the AWA incident) and stay in business.

Will the company put in place a no-alcohol policy? My thought on this is that we (as air crews) are on 'company time' everytime we report to domicile until we leave domicle. Regardless of flight hours or not, we're getting paid X amount every hour we are away from base. Period.

We're pushing the edge on this one. Management may well decide it's in their best interest to put in place a 18 hour rule, a 24 hour rule, a 48 hour rule.. you get the picture.

I don't have the answers, but I know management, and I know what I would be thinking if I were put in the position they are being put in. Some airline could be the first to "jump on the pubic opinion" issue. And run with it.

Now, more rules are not going to grab the few that can't stay away from the bottle, BUT, this is also about public opinion, and if the company can mitigate the chances by putting in place policy...well, time will tell.

It may well be in the companies best interest (from a public opinion issue) to conduct BAC testing upon check-in. How's that grab ya!!! Well, this stuff keeps happening and we're 'gonna see it.

We're heading in that direction.

 

[BEXFlyer]

Eagle just changed to a 12 hour no booze policy from the FAA standard of 8 hours. It doesn't matter what kind of rule the airlines implement... If somebody has a problem they will drink. It is just a shame that those of us (99%) who like to have a glass of wine or a beer legally after a long day, will no longer be able to do so....unless we have a rare 16 hr layover.

 

[justApilot]

For many years drinking on layovers was against company policy at AA. When Cecil took the reins that was changed.

 

[ultrarunner]

For many years drinking on layovers was against company policy at AA. When Cecil took the reins that was changed.

Why? Folks going into his office bitching 'cause they couldn't drink on the road???

 

[likeitis]

opps, This was suppose to be posted on your other thread about the ACA crew in MSN. The report that you copied is wrong in stating it was Comair.


How do you justify that this is a legitimate question?

The only way that this could be a legitimate question would be if they had some other proof that the crew has violated the law.

Do you ask your Dentist, Doctor, Bus Driver, Child care provider, post man, etc if they have had anything to drink recently? You know there are some occupations that I prefer that they be drunk. People like musicians, painters, drywallers, and some welders do better work when they are drunk.


About your other insane idea, if the airlines implement such a policy then every corporation shouldn't allow their employees to drink while they are on business trips. When this happens get me the hell out of this country because I've had enough of the living in a rubber room antibacterial mentality. The funny thing is that I very rarely drink and I couldn't tell you the last time I had a drink on a overnight but I'll be god dang that I'll let more of my personal freedom be taken away. Not that the Homeland security bill hasn't done enough.

 

[Britpilot]

We are not on "company paid time" We are receiving a per diem payment which as you know is for food.
If you want me on company time then pay me my hourly rate for all the time I am in a hotel and not flying.
This problem folks is not new and has been there for a long time, it's just now a new sport for the TSA Nazis to "bust a pilot" and for the garbage media to jump on a new "scandal".
For me , I intend to ask ALL professional people I deal with if they had a drink before we go any further.

 

[justApilot]

Originally posted by justApilot
For many years drinking on layovers was against company policy at AA. When Cecil took the reins that was changed.
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Ultrarunner asked:

Why? Folks going into his office bitching 'cause they couldn't drink on the road???

Ultrarunner:
I don't know exactly what Cecil's thoughts were, but I would bet that he thought this "no drinking on layovers...period" policy was a bit silly. I certainly think that was a silly policy. After a long day, I certainly enjoy raising a cold one with my crew.

 

[mrvmo]

Meeeeeeeeeeeee to! I'll second that one.

 

[skydiverdriver]

I agree with britpilot. I think the TSA is watching us, and you better watch out! Personally, I don't think it's their job, and it's just another result of the democrats insistance on making them federal employees.

I also agree that the per-diem is not pay. When I'm off duty, I don't have to be in the hotel, or sleep if I don't want to. I just have to be ready for duty when I show up for work the next morning.

 

[Doozer]

I'll drink to that...

 

[ifly4food]

I agree with britpilot. I think the TSA is watching us, and you better watch out! Personally, I don't think it's their job, and it's just another result of the democrats insistance on making them federal employees.

I also agree that the per-diem is not pay. When I'm off duty, I don't have to be in the hotel, or sleep if I don't want to. I just have to be ready for duty when I show up for work the next morning.

SDD is 100% correct. It's none of the company's business what I do on a layover as long as I'm legal, rested, and report to work on time. This is why we "duty out" at the day's conclusion and "duty in" the next day.
If the company feels otherwise, than they should pay me an hourly rate for being "on duty" during said layovers. Perdiem is to cover travel expenses. Though we rarely use 100% of it, it is not pay.

As for passengers making accusations, ALPA recommends the following:

Make a PA announcement that there has been a question of the crew's sobriety and the crew must now remove themselves from the flight and prove they are sober. Apologize for the inconvenience. Then report directly to the company testing facility and submit yourself for an alcohol test.

You can't prove you were sober when a pax writes a letter a month later. You must take all accusations as seriously as you would a bomb threat.

 

[DLF8108]

Alcohol During Layovers

- ANY attempt to legislate morality (OR SAFETY) will fall short of 100% compliance...no one is perfect...people are human!
- HOWEVER...
- The company has a RIGHT to expect more than just "simple compliance" with the absolute "letter" of the law...
- Drinking alcohol degrades performance & JEOPARDIZES SAFETY!!
- A single rule CANNOT cover every possible situation!
- 8...12..even 24 hours...might be legal (IAW FARS, company policies etc), yet still be "hung over" & UNSAFE...too many variables here...are you complying with the intent...you decide!
- Are you willing to risk YOUR OWN LIFE at the controls??

...IF SO..."HOUSTON...THERE'S A PROBLEM"...


My $00.02

 

[DeltaCrownFlyer]

As more and more of these 'under the influence' incidents take place, the flying public is going to have very little respect for us as a group...NOR SHOULD THEY.

I concur.

we (as air crews) are on 'company time'...getting paid X amount every hour we are away from base...conduct BAC testing upon check-in

I agree 100%. This is the direction that the airlines AND FAA should go with this. We don't need anymore drunk pilots flying airplanes!

I know some of you guys like to get blasted at the hotel bars. Can you not wait until your home? I mean come on, you only work what 10 days a month? That gives you 20 days A MONTH to drink...

 

[justApilot]

conduct BAC testing upon check-in
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Sorry Ultrarunner but you sir are the one in need of a drug test after that comment.


Right....that's what we want....comon' guys we are supposed to be professionals

GET REAL

 

[Typhoon1244]

I'll drink to that...

Like General Taylor said in Good Morning Vietnam, "now that's funny!"

 

[Typhoon1244]

We don't need anymore drunk pilots flying airplanes!

I agree, but...my god, man, you make it sound like the sky is full of drunk pilots. I hate to sound like I'm defending these losers, but we're talking about four incidents in a fifteen-month period...and none of them were "falling down" drunk.

NTSB records show that drinking is a much bigger problem in the cockpits of (1) locomotives and (2) tractor-trailers. Those incidents usually don't get reported because trucks and trains aren't as sexy as trans-continental airliners. I don't want to see any more pilot-related incidents either, but let's keep some perspective, shall we? You're a thousand times more likely to get hurt by a drunk truck driver or engineer than a drunk airline pilot.

Now, having said all that, I'm sorry but I've got to say I'd support a No-Drinking-On-Layovers policy. If you're a recreational drinker who can go a couple days without a drink, why do you care? And if you can't go a couple of days without a drink, guess what? You have an alcohol problem. Don't argue with me. If you can't handle being without alcohol for, say, forty-eight hours, something's wrong.

Somebody spoke of how nice it is to be able to unwind with a cold beer at the end of the day. I've tried a few beers in my time, and I fail to see why a Sprite or a lemonade or even just a glass of ice water aren't just as refreshing. If you need that alcohol to be refreshed, again, something's wrong.

I know a lot of people are up in arms about the company telling them what they can or can't do while off duty. I agree, but I think this alcohol thing is a unique situation. I know it won't stop a hard-core alcoholic, but it might keep some other people out of trouble.

One more thing: if you allow your fellow pilot to go to work with too much alcohol is his or her system, you're just as guilty as they are. If you catch the problem in the hotel lobby, in the van, or at the gate, don't let them get any closer to the cockpit! How you handle it is up to you. If you decide they're sick and need to go back to the hotel, fine. If you convince them to admit they have a problem and seek help, fine. If you immediately turn them in to the chief pilot...well, you've got more nerve than I do but, fine.

 

[ifly4food]

Typhoon,

While I don't disagree with your statements, the reason I am opposed to any restrictions on what we do during a layover is that it sets a dangerous precedent.

Sure, any reasonable person can go several days without a drink. However, what happens when banning alcohol is so successful that the company decides to ban leaving the hotel because a few crews got in trouble or dutied in late? See what I'm geting at?

You and I both work for a company that would LOVE to know our whereabouts at all times. Imagine the delight SS would have with that. We would be "extended" and junior manned every day. No thanks.

 

[Saabslime]

There are those who will abuse any policy put into place to try and deal with this. I would say they are the extreme minority. Give the rest of us the discretion and respect we deserve as adults and professionals. We don't need a "policy" that treats us as a bunch of gradeschool children who don't have the foresight to know the consequences of our actions.

 

[justApilot]

Typhoon said........... If you immediately turn them in to the chief pilot...well, you've got more nerve than I do but, fine


For those of you that find yourself in this position please consider your Professional Standards as your first phone call. If your first call is to management well, the poor boy doesn't stand a chance.

 

[justApilot]

Typhoon said....
\Somebody spoke of how nice it is to be able to unwind with a cold beer at the end of the day. I've tried a few beers in my time, and I fail to see why a Sprite or a lemonade or even just a glass of ice water aren't just as refreshing. If you need that alcohol to be refreshed, again, something's wrong.
----------

I said that. Hey if you enjoy a cold Sprite, then have at it. I like to enjoy a drink or 2 with my buds after a day of flying thats it. I don't need the alcohol, that just happens to be my drink of choice. You have your sprite, lemonade, water or whatever it is you enjoy and I will have my beer. Take a look at any profession, I don't care what it is but they all have their share of problem children. Humor us again...what is wrong with me?