Alaska Vs. Cathay Pacific

[CesnaCaptn]

I've already made my decision between these two, but what are some of your opinions? LAX FO at Cathay or Alaska?

 

[crashpad]

I hope you chose Cathay and made the right choice!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

If you work at the same company I do and are senior to me either one is a great choice!!!

I've got a friend at Cathay who found he doesn't really like long haul flying. It's a different lifestyle. Have you visited PPRUNE.org ? Lots of info about Cathay there. With Cathay you may not be able to hold that LAX base long term and you have to ask yourself if you're going to be comfortable commuting to or living in Hong Kong. From an economic and long term stability standpoint the winner is probably Cathay. Lifestyle is a whole different issue. If you want to live near LAX it's a fairly junior base for AS and will likely be around for a while.

 

[TriStar_drvr]

I like flying the Pacific, so at first thought, I'd choose Cathay. On the other hand, I live near LA, so flying mostly up and down the West coast, would be much easier on the body, and dealing with an American company and more laid-back American pilots would shift the choice toward Alaska.

But to swing things back toward Cathay, with China's exploding economy, the demand for air transport between China and the West should continue to boom. Who knows with continued $70 a barrel fuel, what lies ahead for the US passenger airline industry.

In any event, congrats on having the choice. Could you just please send your leftovers my way?

 

[typhoonpilot]

Tough choice really. I agree that living on the west coast and flying for Alaska ( mostly north/south flying ) would be great. Not sure about the stability of the company though. Just met an Alaska pilot who left after a few years to become an expat. Didn't really qustion his reason for the move, but there must have been some motivation there.

Cathay is going to do well with the emergence of China as an economic power. they are perfectly positioned to capitilize on an increase is disposabe income of mainland Chinese travellers. As the country loosens travel restrictions they will generate more and more revenue. Their recent purchase of Dragonair only accelerates that revenue growth. A profitable company with roughly an 11 year upgrade on the pax side or much lower on the freighter side would be a very good choice.


Typhoonpilot

 

[RP 04]

This is besides the point really since it's always subject to change, but current upgrade time on PAX side is pretty much on the 9 year mark.

Good luck with either choice...

 

[On Your Six]

Cathay if you don't mind 10+ hours in the air. If you do mind, then choose Alaska. Let us know which way you choose to go...

 

[320AV8R]

Congrats on the ability to choose. :beer:

In my opinion......C-A-T-H-A-Y

Good luck,

320AV8R

 

[ERJdca]

With Cathay you may not be able to hold that LAX base long term and you have to ask yourself if you're going to be comfortable commuting to or living in Hong Kong.

Just curious what you mean by not holding LAX long term? I know three Captains personally who have been on the LAX basing "long term." Maybe im misunderstanding?

 

[Bjammin]

You can stay in LAX as long as you want. Start out as an FO on the freight side, move to FO on the PAX side or upgrade to captain on the freight side. Then eventually move to captain on the PAX side.

All neat an tidy, never have to move.

 

[psysicx]

What do the trips look like out of LAX on both the freight and pax side?

 

[av8instyle]

I've already made my decision between these two, but what are some of your opinions? LAX FO at Cathay or Alaska?

So what did you choose if you don't mind me asking?

 

[j32drivr]

Actually, the flying out of LAX with Cathay isnt too much different than what you'd be doing at Alaska. Mostly up to SFO, then to ANC. Do a HK turn, then double back. So yes, ANC-HK is def. a long trip, but you only have to do it 2 or maybe 3 times a month. And as BJammin said, you can stay there forever if you wish, or trasfer to another US base, or go to HK, or TDY to Paris...well, you get the idea.
Taking big risks yields big rewards.
Good luck with your decision

 

[unarmed danger]

Where to go?

 

[RP 04]

LAX pax trips are normally around 60 hours away from base, and you normally do 2.5-3 of those per month.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

After a lot of soul searching I ended up choosing AS. I'll know if I made the right decision in 30 years.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

With the new bid out, it sounds like AS might have fewer opportunities than I previously thought.

 

[Flip Conroy]

If you don't plan on "committing too much time to this company", do the rest of us a favor and simply bypass Alaska altogether. There are plenty of us out there that will "commit".

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Someone doesn't really get to know a company until they are working for it. Right now, AS has a leader who is talking out of both sides of his mouth. On the one hand he's telling newhires about doubling the seniority list, and 4-5 year upgrades. On the other hand the latest bid doesn't reflect what he was saying. It would be disappointing to work for a company which has management that lies to its employees.

When I interviewed at AS I new they had 10 year upgrades. If the VP had told new hires that, I would have been fine with it. I just don't like being lied to.

 

[Flip Conroy]

Then don't go there. That's my point. Don't just take the job, sit there until something better comes along, then move on. Who would be talking out of both sides of their mouth at that point? YOU. I'm sure they don't like being lied to either when you tell them in the interview that you want to work there and would stay if offered employment at XYZ airlines. Or you would stay if XYZ airlines offered you a job while you were in class. I'm pretty sure they asked you both those type questions. How did you answer them?

So, I guess it's one thing to lie to them but another thing altogether for them to lie to you?

The "latest bid" doesn't project out 4-5 years anyway. NO ONE...not you, not the CEO, not anyone, knows what is going to happen 5 years down the road. Do the best you can for today. Just don't be talking out of both sides of your own mouth while you condemn others for doing the same thing.

Take your own advice. Get out of AS and move on to somewhere where the pilots DON'T think the leaders are lying to them. Oh yeah. Good luck finding THAT place.

 

[QXpeon]

You obviously don't work for the Alaska air group. If you do stop drinking the kool aid. AS is run the same way as QX and I can say for a fact that I believe that they're somehow trying to stifle growth. 30 some odd new airplanes don't mean jack if you're just swapping them out with the MD's.

Looks like growth on the surface until you actually see the numbers. And I don't blame anyone who wants to leave if something better came along. Even if they just got there. A 30% paycut handed out by a profitable airline sucks no matter which way you look at it.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Flip Conroy,

You make all good points, except you lose me toward the end of your post. I don't like being lied to, and I realize that management has to do a certain amount of fibbing to do their job. I also realize that I was looking at a 10 year upgrade when I interviewed. I wasn't lying to them when I said I wouldn't persue other opportunies. I'm sorry if I came across as ungreatful for the opportunity I was given. What would taking my own advise be?

We make decisions based on all the information presented to us. Right now I'm satisfied with my decision. You must understand some of the anxiety a new hire is going through. Most new hires I talked to are a little nervous whehter they made the right decision. It's not easy losing all the seniority and "job security" and pay to come to a new company. I'm not complaining. I knew this day would come, I'm just defending some of my apprehension.

 

[Flip Conroy]

CesnaCapt,

Fair enough. You also make good points, especially when you seem to lose the emotional side of them and make rational statements. Something I could do more of, also.

Good luck with your decision and with your new company and career.

 

[av8instyle]

The "latest bid" doesn't project out 4-5 years anyway. NO ONE...not you, not the CEO, not anyone, knows what is going to happen 5 years down the road. Do the best you can for today. Just don't be talking out of both sides of your own mouth while you condemn others for doing the same thing.

You're right, the latest bid doesn't project out 4-5 years. But it does project out the next year, coupled with the letter the VP Flight Ops just wrote to th pilots that projected out to 2008 makes me think there's no chance of even an 8 year upgrade. This bid after retirements is actually a net loss of captains. Plus 30 or so captains on the next bid projected = not growth. We are averaging 50 retirements a year for the next 25+ years. It takes around seniority # 1000 to get most junior captain. There's about 1500 pilots. That means you need 500 numbers to upgrade. 500 divided by 50 = 10 years assuming no growth.
Based on the VP's letter there will be no pilot growth for the next 2-3 bids. That means best case 50 numbers a year.
So for the last 3 years of your 5 to captain you'd need to see contract training to even come close.
Not gonna happen.
Stable job, pay to increase, but right now not the happy place it has been.
Welcome aboard.

 

[tico]

Flip Conroy,

You make all good points, except you lose me toward the end of your post. I don't like being lied to, and I realize that management has to do a certain amount of fibbing to do their job. I also realize that I was looking at a 10 year upgrade when I interviewed. I wasn't lying to them when I said I wouldn't persue other opportunies. I'm sorry if I came across as ungreatful for the opportunity I was given. What would taking my own advise be?

We make decisions based on all the information presented to us. Right now I'm satisfied with my decision. You must understand some of the anxiety a new hire is going through. Most new hires I talked to are a little nervous whehter they made the right decision. It's not easy losing all the seniority and "job security" and pay to come to a new company. I'm not complaining. I knew this day would come, I'm just defending some of my apprehension.

CesnaCaptn, Unlike Flip who does not work for Alaska, I do. In my 7 years we have made money every year. It is only recently that it has benefited the "Anglers" to show a profit so they have. I have had almost no relative movement in seniority in seven years. I have moved forward in seniority by number but not by base position. With the MD-80 base closure coming and the 737-200 already bid to close, there will not be any movement for years. I am actively seeking employment elsewhere in and outside of the business. I have never worked for a more disingenuous group of flight management personnel. From the assistant base chief pilots all the way to Kevin Finan they are all aligned in concert to turn this job into a mediocre regional airline..... So if you decide to use the place as a stepping stone than do so with out guilt.....They made it this way , it is part of their plan and they can just live with it....For fun and to remind me what a bunch of lying scumbags they are , I went online and took a look at my pre Kasher pay statements.... What a motivator to move on....Enjoy your time here and hopefully you can use it to help launch your career at a real airline......Oh yea....all the talk of a pay raise is just wishful thinking.....openers from the company are rumored to be a pay cut for the captains and a pay freeze for the copilots with a full on assault on retirement... They already know that we won't strike(cant afford to strike) and they will press to that end.....Great people you work for

 

[Flip Conroy]

Whether I work there or not tico/ferlo, the point I was making to CesnaCapt was that it seemed he had a problem with them lying to him but it's ok for him to lie to them. You apparantly, subscibe to the same ethics. It's easy calling the kettle black, isn't it? This industry will be far better off when the malcontents such as yourself actually DO find a way out instead of just talking about it. Which is really all you ever do anyway. Talk shat about everything and do absolutely nothing else.

 

[av8instyle]

......Oh yea....all the talk of a pay raise is just wishful thinking.....openers from the company are rumored to be a pay cut for the captains and a pay freeze for the copilots with a full on assault on retirement... They already know that we won't strike(cant afford to strike) and they will press to that end.....Great people you work for

We won't get a pay raise if you vote in a sh!tty TA. I'd be willing to bet we'll get a substantial raise and I think our last TA made a statement.
Again, you'll only get what you vote for. Of course the opener from the company won't have a pay raise. But the only TA I will vote for will have a substantial raise.

 

[mach none]

We will get exactly what we negotiate and that will be reflective of our unity and resolve.

 

[jetflier]

CesnaCaptn, Unlike Flip who does not work for Alaska, I do. In my 7 years we have made money every year. It is only recently that it has benefited the "Anglers" to show a profit so they have. I have had almost no relative movement in seniority in seven years. I have moved forward in seniority by number but not by base position. With the MD-80 base closure coming and the 737-200 already bid to close, there will not be any movement for years. I am actively seeking employment elsewhere in and outside of the business. I have never worked for a more disingenuous group of flight management personnel. From the assistant base chief pilots all the way to Kevin Finan they are all aligned in concert to turn this job into a mediocre regional airline..... So if you decide to use the place as a stepping stone than do so with out guilt.....They made it this way , it is part of their plan and they can just live with it....For fun and to remind me what a bunch of lying scumbags they are , I went online and took a look at my pre Kasher pay statements.... What a motivator to move on....Enjoy your time here and hopefully you can use it to help launch your career at a real airline......Oh yea....all the talk of a pay raise is just wishful thinking.....openers from the company are rumored to be a pay cut for the captains and a pay freeze for the copilots with a full on assault on retirement... They already know that we won't strike(cant afford to strike) and they will press to that end.....Great people you work for

Hey Tico,

Do you live near "TICO" airport, Titisville, Fl?

Anyway, in hearing what Alaska Air management is like, sure sounds a lot like Northwest.

I'm surprised to hear that ALK is run that way, seems to be that only the good PR comes out of their corp offices.....

 

[Flip Conroy]

Anyway, in hearing what Alaska Air management is like, sure sounds a lot like Northwest.

I'm surprised to hear that ALK is run that way, seems to be that only the good PR comes out of their corp offices.....

Actually, what you "hear" is the sound of a handful of pissed off malcontents on an anonymous message board. I'm sure that gives you an accurate portrait of any company....yeah, right. If you are smart, you take the time to research ALL the facts from ALL sources. The "facts" from the malcontents here are no more completely accurate than are the "facts" coming from the "corp offices".