Alaska TA is out. Pay Rates.

[AA767AV8TOR]

Folks,

I would be very careful about going for the one time chump change signing bonus instead of getting some solid pay raises.

Reason 1: With the way the US Government is printing money these days, there are credible analysts suggesting that inflation will be close to double digits in a few years. Will you really be happy with the new pay rates in a couple of years if hyper inflation hits us?

Reason 2: You’re basically locking-in the Kasher pay cuts for the long term. In reality after allowing at least 2-3 years for negotiations, a five year contract is really a seven or eight year contract. Spin the numbers for an eight year contract. It’s ugly. Suddenly management has figured out pilots will accept a 1.5% pay raise. After the initial bump, a 1.5% pay raise is actually a pay cut when figuring in the effects of inflation. With all we’ve been through, do you really think all you’re entitled to is another pay cut a couple of years down the road? In the early part of the decade inflation was running around 3.0% annually. You’re not even beating those historical rates. Like I said, inflation rates are expected to rapidly increase in a couple of years.

Reason 3: Just like buying a car – you never ever take the first deal! There is always more on the table.

Reason 4: You hose the rest of the industry by establishing a new pay rate baseline for the rest of us thus hurting our pattern bargaining ability.

AA767AV8TOR

P.S. I would think pre-Kasher would be the absolute minimum!

 

[airmasn]

There is scope language which is pretty good with Alaska Airlines, but still not good enough with Alaska Air Group. Flying can still be given away under the new section 1 scope language and LOA 09-03. It's not good enough in my opinion.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

There is scope language which is pretty good with Alaska Airlines, but still not good enough with Alaska Air Group. Flying can still be given away under the new section 1 scope language and LOA 09-03. It's not good enough in my opinion.

What, you don't wanna be Big Skyd?

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Folks,

I would be very careful about going for the one time chump change signing bonus instead of getting some solid pay raises.

Reason 1: With the way the US Government is printing money these days, there are credible analysts suggesting that inflation will be close to double digits in a few years. Will you really be happy with the new pay rates in a couple of years if hyper inflation hits us?

Reason 2: You’re basically locking-in the Kasher pay cuts for the long term. In reality after allowing at least 2-3 years for negotiations, a five year contract is really a seven or eight year contract. Spin the numbers for an eight year contract. It’s ugly. Suddenly management has figured out pilots will accept a 1.5% pay raise. After the initial bump, a 1.5% pay raise is actually a pay cut when figuring in the effects of inflation. With all we’ve been through, do you really think all you’re entitled to is another pay cut a couple of years down the road? In the early part of the decade inflation was running around 3.0% annually. You’re not even beating those historical rates. Like I said, inflation rates are expected to rapidly increase in a couple of years.

Reason 3: Just like buying a car – you never ever take the first deal! There is always more on the table.

Reason 4: You hose the rest of the industry by establishing a new pay rate baseline for the rest of us thus hurting our pattern bargaining ability.

AA767AV8TOR

P.S. I would think pre-Kasher would be the absolute minimum!

As militant as you sound, you are ABSOLUTELY correct. No matter how you slice a turd, a turd is turd is turd. Sadly though, as av8 said, we have a bunch of WDs here at Alaska; most are just happy to live and fly in Alaska and the northwest. If this turd passes, you'll see the self serving f**ks flying over the month max and VSAing until they choke on their own greed. The FOs will be parked in their seats until their hair turns grey, the furloughed will be part time help during busy months, and we'll have an extremely pissed off and devided pilot group. I'd like to congratulate the company f**ks for doing such a good job of dividing and conquering this WD pilot group, once again. Fellow Alaska pilots, IT'S TIME TO WAKE UP!!!

When will ALPA ever learn to hire professional negotiators? God knows they take enough money from us.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm somewhat curious what the dissenters were looking for in an agreement. What kind of pay rates were you hoping for? SWA+?

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

I'm somewhat curious what the dissenters were looking for in an agreement. What kind of pay rates were you hoping for? SWA+?

My personal MINIMUM for a 4 year contract:
$30,000 signing bonus
$190/hr for a 12 year captain
$133/hr for a 12 year FO

With 3% per year for the duration of contract, MINIMUM. This is more than reasonable for the company, IMO.

 

[Tatoosh65]

Increased allowable monthly credit through VSA and open time.. If this thing gets voted in, I think we will furlough in the fall. I can't figure out why the MEC didn't restrict VSA while we have guys on the street.. This is a big deal.
Not good.

 

[PCL_128]

My personal MINIMUM for a 4 year contract:
$30,000 signing bonus
$190/hr for a 12 year captain
$133/hr for a 12 year FO

With 3% per year for the duration of contract, MINIMUM. This is more than reasonable for the company, IMO.

I guess I can understand the bigger signing bonus and 3% step adjustments, but do you really think such big pay rate adjustments on DOS are achievable when you're the first legacy carrier to come up for negotiations post-concessions? I agree that you're worth it, but I don't see how it's achievable. Even with the Obama NMB that's about to be put in place, I don't think they'd release you for those demands. We're going to have to pattern bargain to get back up to pre-concessionary levels, and that means the first carrier in the pattern probably isn't going to be able to get all the way there.

Anyway, it's your contract, and I wish you guys luck. I'll be happy to walk a picket line with you if you reject it and end up striking to get an agreement that you're looking for.

 

[check6]

Not to add fuel to the fire. But total executive compensation for the AAG's top 5 Execs was around. . . .by my feeble calculations. . .close to. . . .7 Meeeellion Dollars!!

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

I guess I can understand the bigger signing bonus and 3% step adjustments, but do you really think such big pay rate adjustments on DOS are achievable when you're the first legacy carrier to come up for negotiations post-concessions? I agree that you're worth it, but I don't see how it's achievable. Even with the Obama NMB that's about to be put in place, I don't think they'd release you for those demands. We're going to have to pattern bargain to get back up to pre-concessionary levels, and that means the first carrier in the pattern probably isn't going to be able to get all the way there.

Anyway, it's your contract, and I wish you guys luck. I'll be happy to walk a picket line with you if you reject it and end up striking to get an agreement that you're looking for.

The #1 problem with the current state of industry is YOU, ME, US.... the Pilots. It's not the company, it's not the union, but US. We undervalue ourselves and lower our expectations thereby setting low goals, then tell ourselves "well, maybe next time". It's human nature to search for that comfort zone. If you haven't realized by now, there is no comfort zone in this life. The sooner we realize that life ain't fair and that there is no comfort zone to park ourselves in, the sooner we will succeed in whatever we do.

We aimed low and we got a turd. We need to grow a spine, some big sacks, and take a stance. The choice is yours. Off the soap box now.