Alaska phasing out MD's?

[ACAFool]

I heard a rumor that Alaska was going to be phasing out the md's much sooner than they had supposedly planned. They would be replacing them with the 800's on order, just as some on this board predicted when they ordered thoses planes. Any truth to this rumor?

THanks

 

[mach none]

They are going away. Puzzle palace has not decided when. Atleast they havent told any of us yet. Flx757?

 

[flx757]

Still just a rumor. I guess there was a statement made during the earnings call that they were looking at "early retirement". Then again, they look at this every year. It'll happen when it happens. Two are scheduled for retirement in the first quarter of this year. Other than that...it is all just a rumor, and until something more definite happens, it is just that.

They do have some cash that can be used to absorb the cost of early retirement (which will be substantial), so if they decide to go that way, now is the time. Regardless, you won't see all 26 airplanes go away this year. Or next year. Or the year after that, probably. "Early retirement" means something prior to 2013. How much prior? 4 years? 5 years? Who knows? No one around here, that's for sure. At least if they do they aren't talking.

 

[lumax]

Of course they have some cash, we gave management 80+ million per year!

 

[BORAT]

I bet you Horizon ends up with the MD's so that they can "develop" markets for us...Its all part of "Harmonization" aka degradation of the airline...

Nothing surprises me anymore...

 

[mach none]

I bet you Horizon ends up with the MD's so that they can "develop" markets for us...Its all part of "Harmonization" aka degradation of the airline...

Nothing surprises me anymore...

They won't get the MD, they will get 100 seat RJs and fly them for the same rate as the 70 seaters.

 

[BORAT]

Oh yeah I know...They're already adding more seats to the foot longs without a change in pay for the pilots.

Those guys are next...I just hope they are prepared for what is coming...

 

[P-Dawg_QX]

Oh yeah I know...They're already adding more seats to the foot longs without a change in pay for the pilots.

Those guys are next...I just hope they are prepared for what is coming...

Don't worry, we're ready. We weren't stupid enough to agree to binding arbitration in our contract, remember?

Oh, and didn't you guys just squeeze an extra row in all your 73s? Where was your pay raise?

 

[BORAT]

Oh, and didn't you guys just squeeze an extra row in all your 73s? Where was your pay raise?

The extra seats on the 400 and 700 wouldn't change our pay because the pig has 16/156 and since we don't get paid according to equipment we don't get a change of pay.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Hate the game, not the players. Oh, and maybe hate the coach, and the team owner, and the opposing team, but not the players.

P.S. I'll try not to degrade your career expectations too much from the right seat of my 37-seater, doing ALW and BLI turns. But thanks for sending all your pay-cut good wishes my way.

 

[BORAT]

It all came out a little wrong...Horizon isn't bugging me...It's what management wants to with Horizon that bugs me.

I hope you guys stick it to management when the contract is up. I don't hate the players, but I do hate the management.

With respect to the 400's additional seats, I was surprised that wasn't a bigger deal then it was. Talking with jumper the other day he seemed to paint it as a big big issue at Horizon right now.

My foot is in my mouth...Anyway, do they still have $1 pints in LWS on Tuesday nights?

 

[ReverseSensing]

It all came out a little wrong...Horizon isn't bugging me...It's what management wants to with Horizon that bugs me.

I hope you guys stick it to management when the contract is up. I don't hate the players, but I do hate the management.

I wish I knew. I'd like to think we'll hold our own, but it's such a senior pilot group that there's plenty of opportunity for management to play us against ourselves. Best case, we'll drag our feet in negotiations, every word, every comma, every t crossed and i dotted, until (?) the industry is less concessionary.

With respect to the 400's additional seats, I was surprised that wasn't a bigger deal then it was. Talking with jumper the other day he seemed to paint it as a big big issue at Horizon right now.

I've heard rumblings that the 400 CA rate will leap-frog the RJ CA rate (FO rate differences are largely irrelevant) due to more seats and that rate increases for 76 seats (if that plan goes ahead) is definitely something we'll work toward in negotiations.

My foot is in my mouth...Anyway, do they still have $1 pints in LWS on Tuesday nights?

Yes, yes, they do. Always a challenge to get your drinkin' done legal in LWS. $1 beers, Skippers fish and chips, and checkin' out the sweaty young ladies at Adcope -- now that's pretty good livin' for being on the road. :beer:

 

[QCappy]

Oh yeah I know...They're already adding more seats to the foot longs without a change in pay for the pilots.

Those guys are next...I just hope they are prepared for what is coming...

The current payscale is for 65-75 seats. So if they want to go from 74 to 76 seats in the Q400s it has to be negotiated. Unfortunately, it can go to an arbitrator if new pay rates aren't agreed to in 60 days.

 

[QCappy]

Anyway, do they still have $1 pints in LWS on Tuesday nights?

I took a paycut the day the beer in LWS went to $1.50:bawling: I bet Ayer had something to do with it!

 

[ReverseSensing]

I took a paycut the day the beer in LWS went to $1.50:bawling: I bet Ayer had something to do with it!

What!? They went up to a $1.50? When did this happen? How did I not notice? It's a travishamockerage (to paraphrase someone's signature)!

Where's Rainey when you need him?

 

[mach none]

Something interesting is going to happen at the Ayer Group. Alaska pilots and Horizon pilots will be in contract talks at the same time.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Something interesting is going to happen at the Ayer Group. Alaska pilots and Horizon pilots will be in contract talks at the same time.

That's an interesting point. What could this mean?

I know we're in different leagues (major vs regional, ALPA vs Teamsters, etc) but do our pilot groups interests align very well in contract negotiations, or are you guys looking to make advances in your contract by pointing to our high CASM, etc?

What do you suppose the Air Group strategy is for a whipsawing of sorts between the two pilot groups? They surely wouldn't go into two contract negotiations without a unified strategy. Where does "bargaining in good faith" come into all this.

I really am curious what knowledgeable folks think about the possibilities here.

 

[mach none]

I believe they will attempt to settle something with us before the amendable date. That could be easier, given the circumstances of Kasher. What will that be...who knows. They want our pension. They want more productivity from us. They will throw us some pay, in hopes that we will budge. The big thing for us is the pension.

I do think our interests are aligned, or should be aligned. We are both a part of the Ayerline. I would even support merging the lists. With fences of course. That would drastically change thing on many levels. As far as whipsawing, be ready for anything. They will probably play the furlough card at Horizon. Retiring Q200 and replacing them with the Q400. That's growth, right? Will the senior Horizon guys make a sacrifice for the junior FO? My guess is no. Management will attempt to divide an conquer.

"Good Faith Bargaining" does not exist with these thieves. They will rape and pillage our contracts.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I would even support merging the lists. With fences of course. That would drastically change thing on many levels.

Does the air group want this? Is this something, that in negotiations, "costs" the air group something, AS pilots something, or QX pilots something?

I assume it would cost the air group and QX pilots something, and the AS pilots would bargain for something significant in exchange. Or do AS pilots view a merged seniority list as a way to protect scope and longer routes?

How widespread do you think support is amongst AS pilots for merging the lists?

 

[QCappy]

What!? They went up to a $1.50? When did this happen? How did I not notice? It's a travishamockerage (to paraphrase someone's signature)!

Where's Rainey when you need him?

It happened last year. It has been a while now. You may have been drunk when you went to pay, so you didin't notice.:beer:

 

[lumax]

I believe they will attempt to settle something with us before the amendable date.

I have heard a rumor regarding this. The company and the union are talking and a possible TA is in the works. Again, just a rumor!

 

[ReverseSensing]

It happened last year. It has been a while now. You may have been drunk when you went to pay, so you didin't notice.:beer:

Why would it be time to pay if you weren't drunk yet?

 

[mach none]

Does the air group want this? Is this something, that in negotiations, "costs" the air group something, AS pilots something, or QX pilots something?

I assume it would cost the air group and QX pilots something, and the AS pilots would bargain for something significant in exchange. Or do AS pilots view a merged seniority list as a way to protect scope and longer routes?

How widespread do you think support is amongst AS pilots for merging the lists?

I don't know how wide spread this sentiment is among Alaska pilots. Would we give anything up for this...NO. Should Horizon pilots give anything up for this...NO. Would the Ayergroup like it...NO. We would have too much power as a pilot group.

As far as protecting scope. Under one list, that is no longer a factor. We are one group and who cares what the Q200/400 is doing, or the CRJ70/100. After all the fences are down, you bid what you can hold, like, pays the best.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Would we give anything up for this...NO. Should Horizon pilots give anything up for this...NO. Would the Ayergroup like it...NO. We would have too much power as a pilot group.

Well, I guess if none of the "sides" are willing to give anything to get one list, it ain't gonna happen, unless I'm missing something. Oh well, sounded too good to be true from my perspective anyway.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I have heard a rumor regarding this. The company and the union are talking and a possible TA is in the works. Again, just a rumor!

I hope you guys really make up some lost ground. A good TA for the AS pilots is well-deserved. Good luck.

 

[mach none]

Well, I guess if none of the "sides" are willing to give anything to get one list, it ain't gonna happen, unless I'm missing something. Oh well, sounded too good to be true from my perspective anyway.

I wouldn't give up. Anything is possible. It will just take time and the proper timing.

 

[mach none]

Would you be willing to give anything up for (better) career advancement?

 

[ReverseSensing]

Would you be willing to give anything up for (better) career advancement?

Anything, as in something? Or anything, as in any thing management wanted?

Yes, I think one list would be worth something to some portion of the QX pilot group (a majority? -- I don't know). Is it worth selling our souls to management? Hell no. Realistically, if management thinks they're going to get pay/work rule concessions for one list, I think they're high. I honestly don't know if there is a pay/work rule neutral bargaining element that we would put in play to achieve it. But I have no special knowledge about this stuff and am only speculating.

Alot of fellow QX pilots have told me the only place they've ever wanted to work was AS. But I doubt that's representative of the entire pilot group, since I interact mainly with fairly junior CA's and FO's.