Alaska guys: Tell me about flying the 737-200.

[BigRing]

I finally got the phone call, and i have an interview with Alaska next week. I have no idea what would be available if i get hired, but i'd appreciate as much info on flying the -200 in ANC as possible. Thanks!

 

[Palomino]

i don't work there, but...

By ‘Mud Hen’ to Red Dog

by Mac af Uhr

Ride the jump-seat of a Boeing 737 into the gravel strip that serves as the gateway to the Red Dog Mine in northwestern Alaska.
​

can't give you any info as per quality of life and flying the plane.

but, i remember reading this article on the 'gravel kit' -200's that Alaska uses for north Alaska mine runs.

i've always been curious about it and found it to be a great read.

looks like you can get it from backorder.

here's the link

http://www.airwaysmag.com/magazine/a104/

 

[tico]

I finally got the phone call, and i have an interview with Alaska next week. I have no idea what would be available if i get hired, but i'd appreciate as much info on flying the -200 in ANC as possible. Thanks!

Well, The Anc 737-200 base probably was the last little bit of Alaska Spirit that our mgmnt is so fond of quoting..People came to work and used their brains and their ability and a little ambition to get the job done in as timely and efficient a manner as possible....There was always talk about how it was cowboys and arctic eagles riding rough shod over the far's and company procedures but that was just a myth propogated by a few loud mouths as all myths are. The flying really is no different than flying anywhere, except there is less traffic in your way when the weather goes south. Flying a low weather approach to a slippery cross wind runway is the same whether it is Bethel or Boston....So again it really was the people that made the difference. As you well know, after May 1st that last little bit of "Spirit" hopped on the last train out of town and those tracks dont run here anymore....In short the -200 is an airplane that is flown like an airplane by people that put their pants on one leg at a time....
As a base to fly out of you will not find a better one in the system. If you live in Anc or the surrounding areas, everywhere is close to the airport, there is no employee bus schedule to live your life by, you do not go through security when you go to work and everyone pretty much knows everyone else....
Now that Alaska is just a mediocre airline(secrets out) quality of life is huge and it does not get better than Anc....
Good luck on your interview and maybe we will see ya around

 

[AK737FO]

The MudHen

The Airways mag is a great read. It is a little on the expensive side, but it's worth it in my opinion. Mac has done several articles for them. He did his first article on flight #64 known as the "milk run" (ANC-JNU-PSG-WRG-KTN-SEA). Then he did an article on the Red Dog mine. Since then the red dog strip has been paved. The magazine will do a follow up article on the last gravel flight in Jan 06 I believe. Mac was a long time 200 Captian, but he switched over to the dark side (ANC 4/7/8/9) to get a better schedule.

Cliff notes: As a new hire, on reserve for years to come, there is no better quality of life than the ANC 200 base. That is assuming that you live here! Do not try to commute it.

As I have said several time on this board, I don't know a thing about LAX, except that it is in southern California and has millions of people. All I can tell you about SEA is that reserve life is tough - especially for those who choose to live somewhere further than a two hour drive from the airport. In SEA almost all (95% of them?) reserve days are two hour call outs - short leash - that has a huge impact on quality of life.

ANC 4/7/8/9 base is growing, reserve life is better, but about half of the reserve call outs are going to be from SEA- stealing you away from your base to put out some fire down south. Most of your flying will be long haul, full on vampire flying. The schedules will get better with time, as the base is new and it is going to grow a lot over the next few years.

ANC 200 is old school, good ol' boys, fun flying. Our ANC crew schedulers take good care of us. We bust our butts for them, they help us out from time to time when we need something. You will get NOTHING in the way of help from SEA crew scheds. ANC 200 reserve lines are about a 60/40 mix of R (4 hour) and A (2 hour) days. Our fine ladies in crew scheds will not convert you (downgrade we call it) to A unless they really need you. That happpens about once a month up here, compaired to almost every day in SEA.

On 200 reserve you will be flying turns most of the time. Sometimes just two legs, sometimes 5 or 6 legs. Short legs, challenging flying, old school stuff. Runways are short and slick in the winter, and it gets a little cold up here from time to time, but the midnight sun of summers are beyond compair. In a nut shell, if living in the ANC area is for you, then come on up and enjoy the best job there is (in my always humble opinion). If you don't want to live here, then bid one of the other airplanes / bases and save yourself from the hassles of commuting.

The 200 training is a little more difficult as well. If you give 100% in training and fly the best you can - no problems. If you slack off, grumble, complain, make some excuses from time to time, then you won't be cut any slack. We still fly arcs, NDB, VOR and LDA approaches, we circle to land at night, we do a fair amount of holding, and no VNAV - you got to use the grey matter between your ears. The 4/7/8/9 flying is all techno, flight directors on, ILS or RNP approaches, with "auto" doing most of the work. In other words, it is just a different world. We are a dying old school beast, they are technology and automation personified.

The company says that our good old horse will be put to pasture by June of 2007. Then we will all be flying the 4/7/8/9 and who knows what the schedules will look like. I imagine that there will still be some turn lines in ANC, but they will go senior. I for one am going to try to hang on till the end (unless I can upgrade) just for the QOL. I've got 24 more years to live half my life in a hotel, why would I want to give up being home almost every night before I have to? To give you an idea, the last time I was away from home over night, was a SEA layover on 9/11/05.

The company plan of June 2007 retirement for all 200's is optomistic in my opinion. I would not be suprised if we are still flying 2 or 3 of them as freighters in 2010. Ever flown a B737-200 in blue jeans,T-shirt and cowboy boots? When we fly freight, that is the uniform of the day! Does life get any better?

Well I think you get the idea. Send me a PM is you need any more info. Good luck at your interview.
AK737FO

 

[ClearRight]

Don't make it sound too good.... I don't need any more competition for the few seats still available!!

 

[mar]

Where's this?

The magazine will do a follow up article on the last gravel flight in Jan 06 I believe.

Interesting post. Thanks.

Where is this last gravel airport?

I thought since they paved Red Dog and you guys pulled out of St. Marys that you didn't serve any more gravel strips.

 

[Jeepman]

So if you fly the 200 do you have to go to differences training to fly the 4/7/8/9? Or vice versa? Is ANC senior for the 737? Any good video clips of the 200 landing or departing a dirt (if not slightly muddy) strip?

 

[G100driver]

I had friends fly the -200. They loved the mission and most of the people they met. Home in ANC almost every night. Nice way to go.

 

[Ty Webb]

AK737FO:

That was the kind of post that this board is supposed to be about. Thanks for a good read and a nice insight to an interesting operation. Best of luck to you and the rest of the folks there. I'd trade ATL for ANC in about 30 seconds, if I could get my wife to move anywhere north of the of the 30 degree North Latitude line.

 

[AK737FO]

No more Mud for the Hen

The Red Dog mine is a charter we fly twice a week. The airport is in the mountains a bit northeast of Kotzebue with a NDB approach. The airport was paved a few months ago, I don't remember the exact date. Alaska Airlines no longer serves any gravel runways - they are all gone. The magazine article coming out soon will be a footnote, maybe a picture or two, of the last gravel flight - sort of a follow up to Mac's previous red dog article.

To answer the other question about training. Right now the 200 pilots are not allowed to fly the other 737's. We are only MudHen pilots. The other guys can fly the 4/7/8/9 on any given leg. When 200 guys go to the new airplane, they have been getting the full meal deal - weeks and weeks of training. I have heard that our instructors are pleased with the 200 guys in training - they can fly a good jet, once they learn how to type. Maybe it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks like typing? I don't know if that is what you would call "differences" training.

When I was in 200 training, I saw an old video (Boeing?) of a 200 doing landings on gravel - actually it was more like dry dust and looked like Africa. Wow! It was impressive. That is the only gravel operations video I've ever seen. The company does have a cool video on DVD of Dutch operations. They filmed some Dutch touch and goes, even dubbed in music, it is pretty cool.

Good luck to all of you getting the phone calls in the months / years to come!

 

[SneakyJake]

During the summer you won't sleep. If you're not flying you're fishing and if you're not fishing, you're flying. Sitting on the ramp in OTZ picking up freight at 1 in the morning, wondering why you aren't tired, staring at the sun, thinking about which river you are going to hit when you get back, pondering if you can get the fish cleaned in time to make the run the next night. No sleep- just fish,fly,fish,fly,fish,fly.......

 

[fokkerjet]

Has Boeing ever offered or tried to put a gravel kit on the 4/7? I'd think there might be other markets besides Alaska for it.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

I know Alaska is converting some -400's into combi's. Wouldn't it make more sense to convert -700's vs -400's? Isn't the -700 comparable to the -200 in performance?

 

[psysicx]

So how often do you land on gravel strips? And is it hard to sleep with the sun up half the year? Or do you make it up in the winter when there in no sun and your freezing?

 

[BigRing]

Thanks for all the good scoop. Maybe i'll actually get hired and i can use the info.

 

[alaskaplt]

And the best part is you get to fly with people who have traditionally thought the job is worth 92% of what the other carriers get because we get to fly in Alaska and the Pacific Northwest.

 

[say again]

if I could get my wife to move anywhere north of the of the 30 degree North Latitude line.

Hey Ty,
Don't let the "wife" stand in the way of your dreams!!!!:beer: PS-I know that is next to impossible!!:crying: :laugh:

 

[ACAFool]

And the best part is you get to fly with people who have traditionally thought the job is worth 92% of what the other carriers get because we get to fly in Alaska and the Pacific Northwest.

Maybe that attitude will change now that there is no arbitration. Hopefully.

 

[mach none]

Don't be an enabler!

Repeat after me, I (state your name) have a problem. I am an enabler. I last enabled (#of hours, or days)...(applause). I am here because I need help (applause).

 

[sleddriver77]

I thought I'd heard there were 700's on order to be delivered as combis. Did that fall thru? Too bad I'm a smoker with no turbine PIC. Sure be nice to get back home.

 

[ACAFool]

Don't be an enabler!

Repeat after me, I (state your name) have a problem. I am an enabler. I last enabled (#of hours, or days)...(applause). I am here because I need help (applause).

Who are you saying people are enabling? It doesn't sound like the people on this board are enabling the company.

 

[mach none]

On this board, people are not. Listen to ops and you know. People calling for lav service, bag tags, calling for the fuel truck. You get the idea. Are you an enabler. Every time you key this mike to ops, ask yourself..Is this someone else's job?

This is a safety issue. Are you concentrating on your job if you are calling for the agent to bring gate claim tags? NO. Do your job and stop enabling the pi$$ poor middle management at this company. It will hurt in the short term, but in the long run, we will be better off.

 

[BORAT]

The -200 rocks your sox off! I miss the heck out of it...As long as you didn't go to Riddle you'll be fine...Flying in Alaska is flying at its best, and flying for Alaska in Alaska is the best place to be in this company...There is no management around, just you and the plane!

By the way I haven't seen my hat in 382 days...Yes, I'm still looking for it...But I'm proud of my streak!

 

[mach none]

I haven't seen mine in over two years. I am not looking.

 

[BORAT]

Oh, I found it! It was in the aft biffy in one of the 900's! One of the ramp thugs was wearing it because it's "bling"

 

[mach none]

I had to sell my hat bling after Gasher. Come to think about it, Xmas is approaching, I guess I will sell some blood so I can afford presents for the kids.

 

[psysicx]

Is the only way to fly the 200 is to be based in ANC? And how long are people going to be on reserve?

 

[LilCap]

Mach none,

Got a question about your stance on "Enabling". I thought the same as you until I got to thinking (I know my first mistake)... why not return to pre Kastrator level of involvement? Do all that we can do to mask the inefficiencies of mismanagement, make everything as smooth as possible. Then when the time comes, say 2-3-4 years from now, fly the contract and only the contract.

Granted, it would take a majority involvement and that in itself might make it futile in the long run anyway.

 

[AK737FO]

Smooth sailing

LilCap,
I would even add this thought. Kastration is here to stay. -29% club for me, and next year I've got to bump my 401K contributions up to 19% to hit the IRS limit of 15K. I lived on mac and cheese for a lot of years before I got this job, I enjoyed steak for a couple of years, now its back to mac and cheese - or I could sell my house. Point is - I NEED to upgrade. We will not be getting a bunch of $$$ back in 18 months through negotiations. The only way for me to have a comfortable life again is to upgrade. That will only happen (sooner rather than later) if we are growing and profitable. Yes I took one for the team along with 1500 other Alaska pilots, but burning down the house will not get me anything - it will only prolong the mac and cheese. This is not to say that I always agree with our management, or that I like some of the things they did and continue to do - but this is the aviation world that we live in. With the whole industry in the tank we are in far better shape than most, so I'm not going to bite the hand that feeds me, even if it is mac and cheese. I'm going to do everything in my power to enable my airline to grow and be profitable, so I can upgrade and get as much of the pie as I can. If someone is ticked off and wants to burn the house down, what is going to get you in the end? Nothing - no upgrade, no $$$, and maybe no job should our airline fail. Whats the point of that? I still wear my hat, I still polish the cowboy boots, I still do the job the same way I always did. I am blessed to work out of the ANC 200 base where every Captain I fly with feels the same.

To answer psysicx - yes and years.

AK737FO

 

[BORAT]

AK737FO, I'm in agreement with you...I learned the Motto "Be Prepared" when I was in Boy Scouts and I've applied it to my career. We where making money for awhile and though its less now we are still getting paid for doing something most of us used to pay to do. Throughout my career there have been ups and downs but as I approach the end of it, I look and see how damn lucky I really am. Sure I've just taken a large paycut but I've never been furloughed, never been out on the street looking for a new airline. I've been super lucky. I've invested wisely for the most part and have lived within my means. I just think of the other paths I may have taken, Pan Am, Eastern, Delta, NWA, United... Oh well, I've been lucky but not wearing my hat is a little protest to support the next generation of guys who might not be as lucky as I was.