Alaska/Delta? Probably not

[Mamma]

You sure seem defensive. Sounds like the same way DL feels about all of your crazy additions out of SLC. DL actually has plenty of connections into SEA on INTL and domestic flights to help fill the new additional flights. Your new ones to SLC...... Not so much. Good luck with that..


Bye Bye---General Lee

I can just see it. Anderson sitting in a meeting saying "Why don't we serve the capital of Alaska? Didn't we do it years ago in the 727?" Then a company "yes man" chimes in and says "We can do it!" Then the decision gets back to those that have to implement it and I'll bet there is a lot of sweating. Juneau is a special qual airport in regards to our ops specs. It will probably be the same for you meaning you will need specially trained pilots to go in there. Now you will have to train all these pilots for 4 months of operations. Then you will probably not get the RNP approach and might end up going to your alternate (2 hours away) once or twice every other week if the summer is nice. (LDA mins). Personally, I think the competition is good. Alaska needs it and the locals need to see why they pay a little more for the service when they are boomeranging back to Seattle after going missed. Also, it forces Alaska to up their game and try to offer a better product. Seattle-Phoenix/Tucson would have probably been a better bet for you guys.

 

[General Lee]

I can just see it. Anderson sitting in a meeting saying "Why don't we serve the capital of Alaska? Didn't we do it years ago in the 727?" Then a company "yes man" chimes in and says "We can do it!" Then the decision gets back to those that have to implement it and I'll bet there is a lot of sweating. Juneau is a special qual airport in regards to our ops specs. It will probably be the same for you meaning you will need specially trained pilots to go in there. Now you will have to train all these pilots for 4 months of operations. Then you will probably not get the RNP approach and might end up going to your alternate (2 hours away) once or twice every other week if the summer is nice. (LDA mins). Personally, I think the competition is good. Alaska needs it and the locals need to see why they pay a little more for the service when they are boomeranging back to Seattle after going missed. Also, it forces Alaska to up their game and try to offer a better product. Seattle-Phoenix/Tucson would have probably been a better bet for you guys.

I'm pretty sure your Dash-8-400s go in there, and I'm pretty sure DL flies RNP approaches, but who are we kidding here? This will be Summer service, the best weather for the year at JNU. It's like you think DL can't handle tough approaches? Really? There's not enough time to figure it out, train Check Airmen? Really? You guys really need to get over yourselves. I think it'll be okay....... With connections from the US (MSP, ATL, JFK, DTW, SLC, LAX, SFO, LAS, HNL), INTL Connections (AMS, CDG, LHR, NRT, PEK, ICN, PVG, HKG, and HND) and all the DCI connections, I think DL will be able to fill a 738 to JNU, one to FAI, and 3 daily to ANC from SEA. Don't get too upset that you'll get fewer of those connections, just throw a fare sale and more lucky locals will get to go.

And have fun filling your new SLC flights.... SLC to SJC and SAN? Why? Dash-8-400s to BOI and LAS? Really? When do all of those Dashes start taking over your ANC flying btw? Do you have any scope protection? There will 140 fewer RJs over at DL when the current contract expires.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mamma]

I never said you couldn't do it. If Alaska let's you use the RNP, you'll be fine in regards to the weather. I was just saying it's a bit of effort to get a bunch of pilots qual'd to go in there for only 4 months.

 

[LandGreen]

I can just see it. Anderson sitting in a meeting saying "Why don't we serve the capital of Alaska? Didn't we do it years ago in the 727?" Then a company "yes man" chimes in and says "We can do it!" Then the decision gets back to those that have to implement it and I'll bet there is a lot of sweating. Juneau is a special qual airport in regards to our ops specs. It will probably be the same for you meaning you will need specially trained pilots to go in there. Now you will have to train all these pilots for 4 months of operations. Then you will probably not get the RNP approach and might end up going to your alternate (2 hours away) once or twice every other week if the summer is nice. (LDA mins). Personally, I think the competition is good. Alaska needs it and the locals need to see why they pay a little more for the service when they are boomeranging back to Seattle after going missed. Also, it forces Alaska to up their game and try to offer a better product. Seattle-Phoenix/Tucson would have probably been a better bet for you guys.

Are you a newhire? Only a newhire fresh out of training; ink still wet on the JNU checkout would gloat about a SAQ airport.

Is this a CA only airport? Needless to say, any training department at DAL, UAL, AMR, SWA etc could spin up a JNU program. It just takes time and $$. Until now the numbers didn't work...

 

[moochild11]

You sure seem defensive. Sounds like the same way DL feels about all of your crazy additions out of SLC. DL actually has plenty of connections into SEA on INTL and domestic flights to help fill the new additional flights. Your new ones to SLC...... Not so much. Good luck with that..





Bye Bye---General Lee

Sorry general..not defensive just not scared..you just don't seem to get the state of Alaska..there is a reason Alaska spent so much money developing RNP..reliability sucks in se without it(year round not just in winter)..we have spent time and money making it work..now it's like clockwork..you aren't just gonna waltz in there and steal our pax..they have absolutely no incentive to fly on you..the first time their friends get in on us and your flight is sitting in ANC or Seattle it's game over..and nobody is saying it is hard to fly an RNP approach..you could sit in an Alaska jet with Alaska plates and no problem...with LDA mins hello Seattle..plus don't our pax have the same list of connections as yours with our nifty little delta code share(plus Dubai of course)..

 

[Mamma]

Are you a newhire? Only a newhire fresh out of training; ink still wet on the JNU checkout would gloat about a SAQ airport.

Is this a CA only airport? Needless to say, any training department at DAL, UAL, AMR, SWA etc could spin up a JNU program. It just takes time and $$. Until now the numbers didn't work...

New hire? No. Are you Buck Rogers? Only Buck Rogers, who defeated the universe would talk out his a$$ about an airport he knows nothing about....because he's Buck Rogers and can do anything. Anyway, enough of the name calling. I see reading is not your strong suit so I'll help you out. I did not "gloat" about JNU being a SQ airport. What I said was it does not sound economical to spin a bunch of pilots up for a 4 month service. If you don't get the lower mins approaches it might not be economical also. Hope that helps!

 

[8v8ter]

Don"t count on summer weather being better. I did OE to JNU in August and flying into 8 and just barely seeing the little light in that narrow cut right at mins at 400 feet or so (Don't have the mins in front of me), and knowing I had a hard turn to final coming up to a runway I still didn't see and a mountain in front of me that I also couldn't see yet, with a right crosswind blowing me towards it, in a plane I had all of 15 hours in...

Gets your blood going. Now I just do it in the sim every year.

 

[Boxboy]

In Mamma's defense, all he said was that it would cost additional money and time to train pilots to fly into JNU. It wasn't condescending IMO. True, anyone can fly into JNU and other SE Alaska. Just like anything else, you get good at it after a few tries (at least most do).
When did ya'll get promoted to CEO? Dang........ I missed the boat again! Yeah dat's right, my daddy can beat up your daddy! Can't we all just get along?

 

[Mookie]

I just think its funny everyone is saying Juneau is nice in the summer.

Mookie

 

[General Lee]

I just think its funny everyone is saying Juneau is nice in the summer.

Mookie

I guess DL will find out, but I bet it's manageable. Delta also employes 50 meteorologists, and they cover weather around the World. I have a feeling some of them can watch JNU and make sure the pilots are briefed. Thanks for your concern, it'll probably be just fine.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[moochild11]

Jeezus general..now you just sound clueless..a meteorologist will brief you the weather is below mins..now what? maybe you should just admit you don't know what your talking about in Alaska and move on..you know what an anemometer is? Cause we own those too..

 

[General Lee]

Jeezus general..now you just sound clueless..a meteorologist will brief you the weather is below mins..now what? maybe you should just admit you don't know what your talking about in Alaska and move on..you know what an anemometer is? Cause we own those too..

Really? Yeah, for some reason you think DL pilots can't handle it when weather goes below mins? OMG! Bail out!! You are a total idiot.... ONLY AK pilots can fly anywhere challenging..... Wow.

And anemometer, a device measuring wind speed? With a $1.3 billion quarter profit in Q3 alone, I have a feeling they can buy a few....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mookie]

I'm only bummed I'm not SE qualled anymore so I won't be able to listen to the s-show up there this summer with all that'll be going on. I for one think delta is going to murder us up in SE. Decimate us. Put us in our place. You know...show us who's boss.

Caveat emptor...
Mookie

 

[tailhookah]

The plane used (single class 190+ seats) 757, was too big for most of the routes. To fill the seats, the fares were lowered, and since Jebtlue was new at the time and had lower costs overall (longevity of employees was low also, many on 1st, 2nd year pay etc), they could handle the lower fares.


Would Song fail today with the addition of bag and change fees? How about with additional costs and higher costs at JB and SWA due to more senior employees?

Spot on! It would be hugely different today. Jetblue is no longer the cheapest and has a hard time going head to head w/ anyone anymore. The ELT has turned into a bunch of pansies when it comes to pushing the product on a head to head basis... hence that's why Barger has gone after the low hanging fruit in the Carib... and now he's trying to stretch a 320 from S. Florida to Lima... not working out too well.

Delta will continue to put pressure on B6 in the NE, especially out of NYC area... don't forget there's also a surging UAL and soon to be AA that are all retooled. Jetblue is in trouble and can't compete w/ the new legacy 800 lb. monkey. AS is better suited but still has some of the same issues ahead that B6 is facing on the other coast.

Tail

 

[moochild11]

General you have such a hair trigger to defend deltas greatness that you refuse to see the point..it has nothing to to with airmanship..is delta willing to spend the money and time to make operating in se workable? Build approaches..train pilots..keep qualifications year round for 4 months of flying..and yes buy and maintain their own anemometers to make 26 is JNU legal? The point is this is a hard place to dip your toe in the water and be successful.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Is there anything that would stop Delta from "plagiarizing" the RNP into JNU? Then they would own an approach that looks just like the approach that AK owns.

 

[moochild11]

Is that how it works at the FAA? Just photo copy the approach and we are good?

 

[Mookie]

Just so everyone knows, the approach is only one part of getting into jnu. There's several other piece to even being able to start the approach and ground reporting that make it viable. But hey, delta I'm sure has it all figured out...

 

[AK737FO]

Truth

General you have such a hair trigger to defend deltas greatness that you refuse to see the point..it has nothing to to with airmanship..is delta willing to spend the money and time to make operating in se workable? Build approaches..train pilots..keep qualifications year round for 4 months of flying..and yes buy and maintain their own anemometers to make 26 is JNU legal? The point is this is a hard place to dip your toe in the water and be successful.

Spot on Moochild11.
I can't figure out why Delta would want to dip their toe into SE other than just a peeing match between CEO's. Delta's got tons of cash laying around right now, so they seem to be willing to waste some of it in SE. Those of us that have flown there for a decade or two know that they will not make any money, nor will they provide reliable service to the customers until they have the infrastructure in place that we have today.

Lets see, the snow should be gone by early to mid May on Mt Roberts, Eagle Crest and Sheep Mountain. When does Big D's first flight start? Late May or early June? That gives them at least 2 to 4 weeks, to hire the labor, buy the supplies, charter the helio to fly on up there to pour the concrete pads to begin building their own anemometers. What could possibly go wrong?

Even if they can get hill winds, can they build, certify and train the RNP in time? Also, I've notice several times this winter that JAWS limits, rather than the old hill winds limits, have improved our reliability. I made it into JNU three times last month on JAWS limits when I could not have made it in on hill wind limits. The (semi) new JAWS limits are great and an example of the good stuff our company does in an effort to improve our safety and reliability in SE.

Seriously, I'm sure that Delta will send some fine check airmen and line pilots to try to fly into JNU this summer. I'm sure that they will do a fine job and will keep their passengers safe. The problem will be when the weather does not give them VFR and they are stuck with the LDA to VFR mins. They will safely bingo to SEA or ANC and then Alaska will spend the next several days trying to clean up their mess of back logged tourists who have now missed their cruise ship departure out of JNU... It's going to be a mess and they won't make any money - but by golly their CEO can claim that his Johnson is a mm or two bigger than our CEO's!

 

[IBNAV8R]

Come to think of it, Big D has dabbled several times in the west coast market. Wonder how long THIS one will last.