Alaska Air Group $262.6 million profitin 2010

[CesnaCaptn]

During negotiations, I pointed out to a captain that Horizon could fly 737s for AAG. Puzzled, he said, "doesn't their scope prevent them from flying 737s?"

As someone pointed out, the NC can't negotiate for something many pilots are naive about. The union has done a poor job of educating the rank and file of the hazard of the way our section 1 is written.

On a related note, didn't we somehow prevent the contracting out of some freighter lift to Kittyhawk a few years ago? How did we win that battle?

 

[Jetjockey]

Midwest Airlines contract had a weak scope provision. Apparently a loop-hole large enough to fly an EMB-190 through it. They outsourced the entire operation.

Scope is, and will be the prevailing important issue in every upcoming mainline contract. If it isn't, you may as well start looking for a new job, because yours may not be around long.

 

[Chief Pilot]

I read Midwest's section on scope, as it was an airline I considered flying for. I have to say, that as bad as our scope language is, theirs was much worse. This time around though, Scope needs to be the #1 issue--tying all of our mainline flying to AAG so that we can't be outsourced to "Alaska Air Express" or "Alaskan Air" or some other bastardization. What good will any other improvements be if we end up outsourced like Midwest?

 

[SRMairlines]

I agree with those above who say we need to be ready to strike to get SCOPE. We could have done that 2 years ago... but the economy made too many scared... and the company scared the pilots on top of that with their "we are going to loose so much money!" -Propaganda.- Since, we have signed a CBA that restored 1/2 of what Kasher took and looky looky record profits EVERY YEAR!

I remember ALPA putting out a bulletin warning us that MGT would use the economy to their adv during negotiations and to ignore their propaganda as a new CBA would cover the good years as well! It was a year later and then ALPA endorsed the contract saying it was the best we can do in this down economy.


Capt's I have flown with said the Horizon rebranding would never happen... it's not AAG's style. They also said we will never go to Hawaii... We will never fly east of the rockies... and the company will never give away scope... and... the Pension will never go away!!! They are batting about as good as the Mariners these days.

Since the NO-STRIKE clause is gone out of our CBA... we might have to seriously play the strike card to get scope so we can actually guarantee that our CBA is worth a d.a.m.n.! If we allow ourselves to be replicable, then we loose our ACE - the STRIKE!

I can see the 2013 negotiations Bulletin warning us that the company will threaten us that they will be unable to take delivery of the -900ERs and they will have to park all -400s if we don't sign on the dotted line. What will we do?

Virgin getting 60 Airbuses
SWA going to Hawaii
SWA going to ANC
Slow or faltering Economy
Stock price back down in the $20's
100 seaters placed outside Alaska Air Inc.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgRp-CZ1UDc&feature=related

Gotta get the SCOPE!

 

[igneousy2]

The horse is out of the barn. There is no way we are going to get any scope improvement. This pilot group will not strike for something that is more a long term problem and only effects the bottom half. They won't even give up there 2nd step or VSA...and the company knows it. Skywest is looking for a place to put about 20 CRJ 700's from there Milwaukee operation. What you want to bet more than a few of those end up with Eskimos on their tails. You heard it here first.

I asked a former MEC chair when I was a newhire if we were trying to tighten up our scope as I thought I had lost pages out my contract the first time I read...his reply was that we had a solid scope clause. Go figure.

What we REALLY need to do.

1. Combine AS and QX seniority list.
2. Add language to the effect of..."No new CPAs, etc and all flying by AIR GROUP or any company it has a financial interest in shall be performed by pilots on the combined list."
3. Well have to bite the bullet on both contracts and give the company something to get them to agree...ie flat wages at both carriers for X years.

Like I said... not going to happen.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Give that man a cigar.

 

[onewithwings]

What we REALLY need to do.

1. Combine AS and QX seniority list.
2. Add language to the effect of..."No new CPAs, etc and all flying by AIR GROUP or any company it has a financial interest in shall be performed by pilots on the combined list."
3. Well have to bite the bullet on both contracts and give the company something to get them to agree...ie flat wages at both carriers for X years.

Like I said... not going to happen.

Next drink is on me! :beer:

 

[mach none]

Tough sell

 

[mrnolmts]

Tough sell

To who, you think? Management or Pilots? I don't know that it would be such a tough sell to mgmt. Pilots might be a different story.

 

[mach none]

To who, you think? Management or Pilots? I don't know that it would be such a tough sell to mgmt. Pilots might be a different story.

Tough sell to management because they get the threat of whip sawing the pilot groups. It will be a tough sell to the pilots because of the fences. There is no way a QX pilot should be placed above a AS pilot on the integration until ALL AK pilots have had the opportunity to upgrade.

The reason I say that is because the pilots at AK took a chance and came to AK and did not decide to make a career out of regional flying...tough love, but that is the way it is.

 

[NWaviator]

Right now, I think the majority of the QX pilots would be happy with a staple.

 

[mrnolmts]

..There is no way a QX pilot should be placed above a AS pilot on the integration until ALL AK pilots have had the opportunity to upgrade...

What you are not considering, imho, is that this would be a merger of two lists under the same parent company. It is not like Alaska would be buying Horizon, as they are both already sister companies. I could see a scenario where air group seniority would be a determining factor in integration, along with a seat freeze to prevent anyone from "bumping" anyone out of their current seat.
However, this is all hypothetical anyway, since a combination of the seniority lists is a very unlikely probability, and I don't really see any reason why management would put it under consideration. As someone already pointed out in another thread, it is much more likely to see a scenario where management will simply look for a cheaper alternative (i.e. SKW). Like it or not, there exists a gap between the Q400 and the smallest 737, and I would not be surprised to see them look at outsourcing 100-seat flying to someone cheap.

 

[flythere]

Right now, I think the majority of the QX pilots would be happy with a staple.

I'm sure there are some greedy ones out there who would want the whole farm, not just the plot over the ceptic tank!!

 

[igneousy2]

The following table outlines Alaska Airlines’ current delivery schedule giving consideration to this order announcement:​

2011 2012 2013 2014 Total
Previously Committed:​

Boeing 737-800 3 4 2 2 11​

Announced Today:​

Boeing 737-800 - 2 1 (1) 2
Boeing 737-900ER - - 6 7 13​

New Order Sub-Total​

​

​

​

​

- 2 7 6 15​

Total Commitment 3 6 9 8 26​

Planned Retirements​

​

​

​

​

- (3) - (5) (8)​

Current Growth Plan 3 3 9 3 18​

Options - - 3 2 5​

Potential Fleet Growth Plan 3 3 9-12 3-5 18 – 23​

Current Growth Plan (firm only)
ASMs:​

​

​

​

​

8% - 9% 3% 6% 6%​

Block Hours: 8% 3% 4.5% 3.5%

 

[tico]

The following table outlines Alaska Airlines’ current delivery schedule giving consideration to this order announcement:​

2011 2012 2013 2014 Total
Previously Committed:​

Boeing 737-800 3 4 2 2 11​

Announced Today:​

Boeing 737-800 - 2 1 (1) 2
Boeing 737-900ER - - 6 7 13​

New Order Sub-Total​

- 2 7 6 15​

Total Commitment 3 6 9 8 26​

Planned Retirements​

- (3) - (5) (8)​

Current Growth Plan 3 3 9 3 18​

Options - - 3 2 5​

Potential Fleet Growth Plan 3 3 9-12 3-5 18 – 23​

Current Growth Plan (firm only)
ASMs:​

8% - 9% 3% 6% 6%​

Block Hours: 8% 3% 4.5% 3.5%

except for: fuel prices are higher than we anticipated, the economy is getting worse not better, competition from lower cost carriers is harder than we thought, our costs are not in line with market, etc...new order subtotal 8, planned retirement 8, block hour growth 18% under the skywest/rebublic alaska express banner