AirTran under Pressure from Delta

[qxdash8]

What Glen was getting at is that AAI has operated irrationally over the years which is why DL doen't like competing with them. These are his words not mine - I don't have any specifics but I thought it was an interesting comment.

 

[qxdash8]

As I understand - post BK DL has much fewer "VP's and Directors" than it use to. Virgina Ave is a much quiter place these days.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That it is, and not many of the remaining ones are pilots.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Airtran has the lowest ASM than any airline out there, that is why DL hates competeing with them !!!

Dl should have started when AAI had 40 airplanes not 150....

AAI has hundred or two running the airline=DL has 1,000s??? How many VPs and Directors does DL have?

The guys running the farm were too worried about bleeding the company that competing back then. Times are a lot different.

 

[scarlet]

Yeah try putting 2 50 seaters in a city for Airtrans one 717?

about 2800/hour for a 50 seat DL pays for RJ
Plus Fuel DL pays... ?? It is not cheap. Airtran tried RJs to those cities and it was better to just fly the 717.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The guys running the farm were too worried about bleeding the company that competing back then. Times are a lot different.

What is different? The economy is tanking, lots of credit concerns, businesses cutting back on their budgets, a softening international demand because of a rising us dollar, and you guys are spending BILLIONS of dollars to try and merge your company? It is not a done deal by any stretch of the imagination and the benefits of the merger could be YEARS away if they ever do come true (look at US Air, they are still week even without the labor strife and they had the benefit of CH11). It is still the courting faze where they are putting on happy faces to get government approval. You might want to be careful laughing at somebodies burning house when smoke is coming out of your own.

 

[Eagle757shark]

If they come to ATL it will be after AAI's demise or it will be the demise of AAI. There is no way that two LLC can compete for that market share in and out of ATL.

Wrong, we do it in Philadephia. You speak as if this is some special turf here in Atlanta. By your post you have some hard on for the demise of AirTran. Atlanta is a city that someday may become apart of Southwest's route structure. Southwest and AirTran co-exist in many cities around the country and do just fine (BWI, MDW, MCO, TPA, FLL) to name a few. AirTran was hit hard this year by the fuel crisis. But now that fuel is below $90 dollars a barrel, AirTran is lean enough to be around a long time. By the way, as of 10/10/2008 at www.airtran.com investor relations and earnings, you will see that AirTran is projecting a profit of $37 million dollars for 2009.

 

[Ualexpress]

Glen H. came to my new hire class in March. He was asked if we (DAL) were worried about LUV coming to ATL. His response was that we would much rather have LUV in ATL than Airtran. He stated that SW was much more rational in how they ran their airline then Citrus. Personally I don't see SW in ATL unless Airtran in gone. Trying to compete angaints both DL and AAI in ATL is a whole different ball game compared to UA and F9 in DEN.

Funny, that is the same thing that AirTran management said about Delta pre bankruptcy and during bankruptcy.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

No AAI and LUV cannot compete together in ATL. It will be the death nail in AAI in ATL.
I believe that USA has international out of PHL. Different feed, O and D and markets. Kind of like F9, LUV, and UAL out of DEN.
DAL and AAI can compete. DAL and LUV can compete, but putting LUV in ATL with DAL and AAI, will lead to one being thinned out.

 

[Murphy]

Glen H. came to my new hire class in March. He was asked if we (DAL) were worried about LUV coming to ATL. His response was that we would much rather have LUV in ATL than Airtran. He stated that SW was much more rational in how they ran their airline then Citrus. Personally I don't see SW in ATL unless Airtran in gone. Trying to compete angaints both DL and AAI in ATL is a whole different ball game compared to UA and F9 in DEN.

Aren't you guys trying to get rid of Glen?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Are you nuts. He is the one who is responsible for our route rework.

 

[Eagle757shark]

No AAI and LUV cannot compete together in ATL. It will be the death nail in AAI in ATL.
I believe that USA has international out of PHL. Different feed, O and D and markets. Kind of like F9, LUV, and UAL out of DEN.
DAL and AAI can compete. DAL and LUV can compete, but putting LUV in ATL with DAL and AAI, will lead to one being thinned out.

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? AirTran and Southwest compete out of BWI and MDW just fine. Atlanta may become a city that Southwest wants to add to there nationwide network. If it is, it will be like all the other cities AirTran and Southwest fly to and compete on the same routes. Airlines build networks and route structures for their customers. It is not solely about trying to put one company out of business. It's like you are saying ooooh if Southwest comes to Atlanta, AirTran is in trouble! Where do you get this crap. It's like your manhood is being challenged here. Grow up! Southwest will probable provide service to Atlanta by the end of next year. If they do, Delta and AirTran will be competing with Southwest like they do in every other city the three carriers compete out of.

 

[ASA_DFW]

CL-65 doesn't need to grow up. He is a pretty smart guy and knows what is going on at Delta. If Southwest came to ATL, AAI would be in trouble.

You talk about how AAI and SWA work together in MDW and BWI. Who else do they compete with out of those markets? Nobody. You can't have three airlines out of ATL. Delta will not allow this to happen.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

CL-65 doesn't need to grow up. He is a pretty smart guy and knows what is going on at Delta. If Southwest came to ATL, AAI would be in trouble.

You talk about how AAI and SWA work together in MDW and BWI. Who else do they compete with out of those markets? Nobody. You can't have three airlines out of ATL. Delta will not allow this to happen.

Actually it is SWA, AAI, and Delta in Orlando and it looks like Delta is reducing their flying.

 

[Eagle757shark]

CL-65 doesn't need to grow up. He is a pretty smart guy and knows what is going on at Delta. If Southwest came to ATL, AAI would be in trouble.

You talk about how AAI and SWA work together in MDW and BWI. Who else do they compete with out of those markets? Nobody. You can't have three airlines out of ATL. Delta will not allow this to happen.

So him knowing about what is going on at Delta has to do with what? Hell as far as we know, Southwest may merge with AirTran in the future, I don't know and really don't care. I didn't say Southwest and AirTran work together in MDW and BWI. Southwest and AirTran compete against one another in MDW and BWI. They also compete against one another along with US Airways in PHL. They compete against one another in MCO along with Delta and Jetblue, and they compete against one another in TPA along with Delta and US Airways. So again, what are you and your buddy trying to say that has meaning here, nothing. Southwest will probable enter in the Atlanta market next year, ok. If they do, Southwest will be adding to their nationwide network. So lets get some perspective here. Southwest entering into the Atlanta market will hurt both Delta and AirTran, will it be the demise of AirTran? Probable not.

 

[MJ42]

Actually it is SWA, AAI, and Delta in Orlando and it looks like Delta is reducing their flying.

Guess that makes Delta smart, not too many families going to these vacation destinations with a bad economy, huh?

 

[Eagle757shark]

Guess that makes Delta smart, not too many families going to these vacation destinations with a bad economy, huh?

With the Iceland banks collapsing last week and a global economy in a tale spin, we will see how well Delta's international expansion works out. This business in this economy is going to be rough for all airlines.

 

[qxdash8]

Actually it is SWA, AAI, and Delta in Orlando and it looks like Delta is reducing their flying.

MCO is no ATL. MCO is primarily a leisure destination, ATL is a major hub (for both AAI and DL). I would be suprised if SW is even interested in coming into ATL in the current condtions. Look how long it took for them to announce MSP service - and there is no major LCC even based there.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Trust me I have seen some numbers and it would be a blood bath.
And yes, LUV may indeed buy AAI, but not if it is healthy. They will want them for a deal.
Right now AAI is fairly healthy.

 

[gt1900]

Get over it guys... LUV ain't buying AAI. And LUV aint goint to come to ATL. There is just way too much competition between AAI and DAL for LUV to be profitable. It would be one thing if AAI and DAL were both legacy carriers with high costs, but AAI has lower costs then LUV. LUV can't simply enter the market and put the hurt to AAI and DAL.. Not without bleeding themselves. And LUV is about making money, not bleeding it. If they could come into ATL and get 20 gates then maybe, but still probably wouldn't happen. Their are a lot of loyal AAI and DAL pax that fly out of ATL. It kinda reminds me of when everyone said LUV was gonna put Alaska out of business in SEA. ALA is doing just fine, and LUV has taken their expansion elsewhere.

DEN is a totally different situation. F9's costs are much higher and they are hurting. AAI should have merged with them 3 years ago. If they had, you wouldn't see LUV doing what they are in DEN.

LUV will expand where they feel they can make money. And ATL isn't one of those places with the current competition... Simple as that... They slowed thier expansion in PHL and took it to DEN. Now they have added a few flights out of MSP.. They may become pretty big out of MSP. If so, that would be another city that AAI failed to grab when it was available.