AirTran under Pressure from Delta

[MJ42]

You're kidding, right? DAL started drawing down MCO a year or more ago . . . . . more likely in response to competition from . . . . . SWA and AirTran.

Which, by the way, made AAI the second largest carrier at MCO, and SWA #1.

Ty

No, I'm not kidding, are you? They cut back a lot of Mesa ERJ flying.

Here's an article(4 months old) for your reference:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-06-03-airlines-cuts-flights-fares_N.htm

Note 1/2 way down in the part "Vacation spots squeezed". Talks about Delta reducing flights "STARTING THIS MONTH". Delta didn't cut back due to competition, but because there is no money to be made in MCO as well as high fuel prices(in June) and less pax going to vacation spots.

Ty, do you think it could have had something to do with DAL trying to get rid of Mesa and some RJ's? I do! Reference same article: "Communities losing 'RJ' links". It specifically cites MCO.

 

[General Lee]

You're kidding, right? DAL started drawing down MCO a year or more ago . . . . . more likely in response to competition from . . . . . SWA and AirTran.

Which, by the way, made AAI the second largest carrier at MCO, and SWA #1.

Ty

SWA and AAI really didn't go to the same cities Delta did from MCO. Delta was more affected by Jetblue probably. And MJ42 was right, the major reduction in our flying as of late was the drop in RJs, to places like GSO, CAE, EYE, and intra FLA stuff that was not profitable.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[dooork]

If they come to ATL it will be after AAI's demise or it will be the demise of AAI. There is no way that two LLC can compete for that market share in and out of ATL.

You mean three LCC. You forgot Delta.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yeah, tell that to the people that are paying over 7K for a Business Elite ticket for international travel.

 

[atldc9]

My airline is better than your airline. Another 2 minutes of my life wasted.

 

[dooork]

Yeah, tell that to the people that are paying over 7K for a Business Elite ticket for international travel.

I'm talking about quality. You ain't no Singapore.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

No kidding. We are not much of anything when you compare it to the rest of the world. America's Airlines have horrible first class service.

 

[scrub]

gotta love airline pilots, hoping the other guys fail, grow up!

 

[Ty Webb]

It looked to me like the mainline started drawing down long before that . . . seemed to coincide with (result in?) our terminal change, which was last year . . . I don't do much MCO stuff, more of a west coast guy, so I'm not familiar with the recent RJ changes you are talking about. I thought we were talking about competing with SWA and AAI, not intra-Florida and flights to Pig's Knuckle, AR.

But what do I know? I'm just a Yoke and Throttle Operator . . .

No, I'm not kidding, are you? They cut back a lot of Mesa ERJ flying.

Here's an article(4 months old) for your reference:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-06-03-airlines-cuts-flights-fares_N.htm

Note 1/2 way down in the part "Vacation spots squeezed". Talks about Delta reducing flights "STARTING THIS MONTH". Delta didn't cut back due to competition, but because there is no money to be made in MCO as well as high fuel prices(in June) and less pax going to vacation spots.

Ty, do you think it could have had something to do with DAL trying to get rid of Mesa and some RJ's? I do! Reference same article: "Communities losing 'RJ' links". It specifically cites MCO.

 

[~~~^~~~]

AirTran would be G O N E if NWA had not paid out $270,000,000.00 plus to bail out MidWest. AirTran did not have the cash to merge, then carry MidWest forward with the dynamics of fuel prices.

Delta is losing money throwing RJ's at 717's. They plan to lose more money throwing 1950's tech DC9's at them. NWA lost $300,000,000.00 trying to keep AirTran out.

Who's "irrational" ?

 

[jester757]

And just wait until DAL/NWA start the nines here in ATL on the routes where RJs run against AAI. From what numbers I have seen - those good old nines are WAY cheaper to run on the routes - even with the high fuel burn because they are paid for. Can you say preditory pricing...(or as LCCs put it - fare sale)??

 

[puddlejumper101]

Something that surprised me is just who SWA's biggest competitor is right now. It's not Airtran, DAL, UAL, F9...its USAirways. 20% overlap on domestic routes, more than with any other carrier. SWA doesn't really compete with AAI or Jetblue at all (miniscule numbers)...there is very little overlap between the three.
SWA folks in DALLAS are not stupid, and they pick their competition well. USAirways is having all kinds of problems, service is aweful (especially in their domestic operation), their numbers are horrid and SWA is taking advantage of it. Next on the list of troubled airlines is UAL. That being said, SWA is on UAL attack also with DEN, SFO, and MDW taking quite a big bite from UAL's domestic operation. I think DAL is rather healthy at the moment and for this reason SWA is staying away from ATL. But that could change quickly. If Gary or Herb can get landing rights into Dobbins (doubt it but I am sure they are working on this), then SWA would be all over ATL. But for now, easier targets in other locations. CLT will happen before ATL does. AAI and SWA don't really compete. AAI has always stayed away from SWA as much as they could...so has Jetblue.

 

[General Lee]

Something that surprised me is just who SWA's biggest competitor is right now. It's not Airtran, DAL, UAL, F9...its USAirways. 20% overlap on domestic routes, more than with any other carrier. SWA doesn't really compete with AAI or Jetblue at all (miniscule numbers)...there is very little overlap between the three.
SWA folks in DALLAS are not stupid, and they pick their competition well. USAirways is having all kinds of problems, service is aweful (especially in their domestic operation), their numbers are horrid and SWA is taking advantage of it. Next on the list of troubled airlines is UAL. That being said, SWA is on UAL attack also with DEN, SFO, and MDW taking quite a big bite from UAL's domestic operation. I think DAL is rather healthy at the moment and for this reason SWA is staying away from ATL. But that could change quickly. If Gary or Herb can get landing rights into Dobbins (doubt it but I am sure they are working on this), then SWA would be all over ATL. But for now, easier targets in other locations. CLT will happen before ATL does. AAI and SWA don't really compete. AAI has always stayed away from SWA as much as they could...so has Jetblue.

Get landing rights into Dobbins? Come on now. More like Macon is Southwest's style (Manchester vs Bos, Islip vs JFK...) Highly doubtful, unless you are high yourself. BTW, we compete with Southwest at SLC, and we do just fine. While they do primarily point to point traffic, we use our hubs for connections.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[puddlejumper101]

Get landing rights into Dobbins? Come on now. More like Macon is Southwest's style (Manchester vs Bos, Islip vs JFK...) Highly doubtful, unless you are high yourself. BTW, we compete with Southwest at SLC, and we do just fine. While they do primarily point to point traffic, we use our hubs for connections.


Bye Bye--General Lee

With Millions of people living in Cobb County, trust me Dobbins is one hot piece of Real Estate. Soo much so, the city of Atlanta and Delta Airlines will go to whatever extent possible to make sure it doesn't happen. But this is SWA, the same airline who got rid of the Wright Ammendment, so anything is possible. Dobbins is a money maker waiting to be exploited. SWA and DAL don't really compete in SLC but on like 3 routes (the rest are RJs). Because of you General, DAL is not the weakest legacy. Easier battles at the moment for SWA, but if we end up in ATL, then you better get working General because this means SWA has noticed something that isn't working. Like with USAirways and UAL.

By the way...Islip is not used as a replacement for NYC. Long Island is home to over 2 million people. Enough people in Long Island to support SWA service without counting NYC. Islip is not a NYC replacement, it's an independent market from NYC.

 

[qxdash8]

With Millions of people living in Cobb County, trust me Dobbins is one hot piece of Real Estate. Soo much so, the city of Atlanta and Delta Airlines will go to whatever extent possible to make sure it doesn't happen. But this is SWA, the same airline who got rid of the Wright Ammendment, so anything is possible. Dobbins is a money maker waiting to be exploited. SWA and DAL don't really compete in SLC but on like 3 routes (the rest are RJs). Because of you General, DAL is not the weakest legacy. Easier battles at the moment for SWA, but if we end up in ATL, then you better get working General because this means SWA has noticed something that isn't working. Like with USAirways and UAL.

I wouldn't say that "anything" is possible when it comes to WN. Just ask the folks in Seattle how that BFI operation is working out. The Wright Amendment was a stupid piece of federal legislation - local governments are not so easily swayed when it comes to protecting their own.