Airtran to make large Boeing order.....

[FLB717]

General,
I need to go see the Flt Surgeon, Im starting to agree with you way to much! Just wondering tho how does ALPA go more junior with layoffs and early outs? Must be my fuzzy Florida math (I voted for the winner, ? one yous ask)

personaly I would love to see the "Small Jet" guys for thier own union, it would hurt ALPA short term but give the ASA,AE, CMR, etc much better representation

 

[fokkerjet]

AW&ST

In the current issue of AW&ST, an article on the AirTran order talks about pay rates. The article states that the pay rate on the B737-700 will be the same as on the B717, and any orders switching to the B737-800 will only come if/after rates are established on the series.

I have a question about those rates. Wouldn't the -700 command a higher rate because of it's weight, passenger configuration (130+ seats), range and/or mission now, when compared to the B717? I know very little about airline pay schedules but it seems to me that most pilot groups are paid different rates for airplanes of different series within the same type, let alone completely different types altogether.

 

[flx757]

fokkerjet,

The 737-700 falls into the same pay category as the 717 and DC-9 in our contract. They are both considered "Small Narrowbody Aircraft" (SNB). The 737-800 falls into the "Large Narrowbody Aircraft" (LNB) pay rates in our contract. There are, and have been since the current contract was signed, pay rates for this aircraft.

Here are the examples from our contract for pay rate purposes:

SNB - B-737 (-100,-200,-300,-500,-600,-700); DC-9 (all models); A-318; A-319; F-100, and BAe-146.

LNB - B-727; B-737 (-400, -800, -900); B-757; A-320, and A-321.

So, as you can see, the AW&ST article is incorrect. Pay rates for the 737-800 HAVE been established.

 

[fokkerjet]

From what you posted, I guess one reason for the Airbus not being chosen is the fact it falls into the LNB column.

What criterion was used to determine what was considered a SNB vs a LNB? Seating? Looking at Boeings website, the -700 lists a maximum takeoff weight about 4500 lbs greater than the -400, but it seats 40 less people than the -800.

 

[flx757]

fokkerjet,

I really don't know how much the SNB vs. LNB weighed into any aircraft order decision. The official company line was that it had nothing to do with it, that they were looking more at increased range and not so much at a large increase in capacity. Besides the obvious need for longer range aircraft, first and foremost, they wanted aircraft that they can fill. Again, that seemed to be the company line.

As far as Airbus not being chosen due to it falling into the LNB category, the A-319 was the model under consideration, and it too, falls into the SNB category.

Finally, I wasn't around during the negotiations for the current contract, so I couldn't say what the criteria was for determining what constituted a "Small" or "Large" Narrowbody Aircraft, but I would think that seating capacity would have a lot to do with it. That seems to be what many companies base their pay structure on. But again, I can't say for sure what the true criteria was, so perhaps someone who has been around longer could shed more light on this subject.

 

[superman]

The LNB and SNB acft categories (and their respecitive payscales) were arrived at by determining the prospective amount of revenue be carried in the cabin. The auth max T/O gross weight of the aircraft was not a definitive factor.

 

[-9Capt]

Fokker

I found the article you spoke about and I think you need to read it again.

It clearly states that pilot pay is the same for the B-717 and 737-700 but higher on the 737-800.

 

[fokkerjet]

Re: AW&ST

In the current issue of AW&ST, an article on the AirTran order talks about pay rates. The article states that the pay rate on the B737-700 will be the same as on the B717, and any orders switching to the B737-800 will only come if/after rates are established on the series.

I think this is what I said, my question was why? flx757 and superman were able to answer it. Thanks!

 

[FL717]

Re: Re: AW&ST

The article states "after rates are established", implying we don't have a pay scale for the 737-800. That statement is misleading or actually it's outright incorrect. The rates are already established in our current contract for the 737-800 (which is classified as a LNB as several have pointed out).

 

[fokkerjet]

actual quote from AW&ST

Let me correct my paraphrase of the article: It actually reads "Beyond seating capacity, one factor in deciding whether to take 737-800s instead of Dash 700s will be pilot pay." I assumed that meant it wasn't decided yet, but that question has been answered. No flaming intended, just a poor assumption!

 

[PROFLYER]

Can any Airtran guys post the LNB pay rates?

Thanks

 

[FL717]

AirTran LNB (Large Narrow Body) Rates this year:

Captain 4/1/2003

2. 109.90
3. 114.86
4. 121.32
5. 129.68
6. 134.81
7. 139.77
8. 144.92
9. 151.37
10. 160.83
11. 163.29 (Last year on 2003 payscale - that is the senior Capt)


First Officer 4/1/2003

1. 39.50
2. 60.44
3. 65.47
4. 71.57
5. 77.81
6. 80.89
7. 83.86
8. 86.95 (Last year on 2003 payscale - that is the senior FO)