Airtran to make large Boeing order.....

[General Lee]

Fins and FLB717,

Sorry, I was away on a 2 day trip. I was talking short-term for the lack of gate space. I knew they were building a new runway and heard something about a new terminal near the cargo ramp, which I guess is the new South Terminal. I wonder how long it will take to build that? Probably 3-4 years, but Airtran isn't getting the new airplanes for awhile either. Good for them.

Fins,

As far as the new gates they have in the D- Concourse, I knew they had some RJ's parked at the south end, but I didn't know they had anymore. Regardless, they will have some trouble expanding quickly at ATL until they get that new terminal. But, as others have stated, they may find some other bases.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FLB717]

general.

Wow man flying makes you happy, good to see you back.. thought it might get dull without you.

 

[General Lee]

FLB717,

Hey, I love aviation. I like trying to keep things interesting, but I never try to slam anyone, well--except for that Comair Mec chair.....but that is another story.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes, but what have the gods done with FlyDeltaJets?

He seems to have fallen off the face of the Earth. . . . . . . maybe he's in our 6/26 Indoc? Heh-heh!

 

[General Lee]

Ty,

Maybe he is. I think the key here is to get a good job with a good airline. Airtran is one of them. But, I think most Delta furloughs will hold out for Delta again, and hopefully it won't be too long until they return. Dalpa is working on the 250 "War Emergency" furloughs right now in a grievance, and we all know that the war is over and the loads are coming back. Hopefully the economy continues to rebound and the airlines continue to fill seats. The oil prices will eventually come down again when the Iraqi oil production gets underway fully. See, I am full of optimism. (When I am not I am crying nonstop)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FLB717]

General
Im bettin that the CMR MEC has little good to say about DALPA. On a different note we have a lot old ex USA, AMR/TWA Piedmont and SCA people in our last new hire class, seems none of the (1 of 15 does) new hires have anything good to say about ALPA. You may have adifferent view, why do you think that is, whats your thoughts on the unlove of ALPA?

 

[Ty Webb]

General:

I hope FDJ is back on the Widget property very soon, too. The sooner all this crap is over the better for all of us.

Besides, he must be having problems adjusting over here . . . I heard they caught him trying to sew an extra button on his AirTran jacket to make it double-breasted, and then he got in trouble for taxiing soooooo slowly that even the Delta guys were complaining . . . .

 

[General Lee]

Ty and FLB717,

You guys crack me up. By the way, I am glad that Airtran is doing well and that you guys will be flying the 737NG--I flew the 737-800 for 1 year and liked it. (But, the thing had no EICAS--like the 757, and only had the recall buttons--showing where on the upper panel there was a caution light etc.) From what I hear from my Alaska buddies, the 737-700 is a little squirly to land, but overall is nice to fly. I thought the 737-800 was nice overall, but had some teething problems initially that have probably been cleared up by now---the 300 kt restriction with the speed brake and the deicing 280kt restriction etc. I am sure all of that stuff will be worked out by the time you get them, and the winglets will look cool.

FLB717,

Yeah, a lot of people dislike ALPA. They have a reputation for mainly helping the senior pilots, and screwing the junior ones. But, I think that is changing, since the junior ones will be the majority soon, and they don't want to be kicked out in favor of the Teamsters etc. The Comair MEC and it's chairman probably dislike Dalpa greatly, and I can see why. But, what do you expect the Delta pilots to do? We need to protect ourselves, and i know the Comair pilots also need to protect themselves. But, we are more of a money producer for ALPA, and we probably have the upper hand. If the Comair people know that, then why don't they find some other representation? It will not change if $$$$ is involved, and ALPA is a business. I am not trying to slam them, just trying to state what I see.

Ty,

I think those double breasted uniforms look sharp. Everytime I wear one I think I'm going to get shipped off on the nearest battleship or aircraft carrier.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Ty,

You said you were leaving, and I figured, "heck, these boards just won't be any fun anymore! I'm outta here too."

Then, just out of curiousity, I look back, and here you are!


Actually, the truth is that I have wasted wayyyy too much time on these stupid boards. They are addictive, aren't they?

I've decided to cut way back on my posts.

What's that? I couldn't hear you over the applause!


I'll be checking in, but life was what was happening while I was arguing with all you clowns. I don't want to miss it. I was doing just that.

Be talking with ya....just a little less often.

 

[Ty Webb]

That's a big 10-4, there, Rubber Duck. I got to the same point, too.

Here's wishing you much luck and success in the interim, until you are back up front, where you belong.

I hope you are still able to "commit acts of aviation" in the meantime. I still keep up with my corporate jet contacts; if you are somewhere in the country where I could help keep you keep burning that Jet-A until that phone call comes, please PM me and let me know- I would be very happy if I could help make that happen.

Regards,

DM

 

[FLB717]

General,
I need to go see the Flt Surgeon, Im starting to agree with you way to much! Just wondering tho how does ALPA go more junior with layoffs and early outs? Must be my fuzzy Florida math (I voted for the winner, ? one yous ask)

personaly I would love to see the "Small Jet" guys for thier own union, it would hurt ALPA short term but give the ASA,AE, CMR, etc much better representation

 

[fokkerjet]

AW&ST

In the current issue of AW&ST, an article on the AirTran order talks about pay rates. The article states that the pay rate on the B737-700 will be the same as on the B717, and any orders switching to the B737-800 will only come if/after rates are established on the series.

I have a question about those rates. Wouldn't the -700 command a higher rate because of it's weight, passenger configuration (130+ seats), range and/or mission now, when compared to the B717? I know very little about airline pay schedules but it seems to me that most pilot groups are paid different rates for airplanes of different series within the same type, let alone completely different types altogether.

 

[flx757]

fokkerjet,

The 737-700 falls into the same pay category as the 717 and DC-9 in our contract. They are both considered "Small Narrowbody Aircraft" (SNB). The 737-800 falls into the "Large Narrowbody Aircraft" (LNB) pay rates in our contract. There are, and have been since the current contract was signed, pay rates for this aircraft.

Here are the examples from our contract for pay rate purposes:

SNB - B-737 (-100,-200,-300,-500,-600,-700); DC-9 (all models); A-318; A-319; F-100, and BAe-146.

LNB - B-727; B-737 (-400, -800, -900); B-757; A-320, and A-321.

So, as you can see, the AW&ST article is incorrect. Pay rates for the 737-800 HAVE been established.

 

[fokkerjet]

From what you posted, I guess one reason for the Airbus not being chosen is the fact it falls into the LNB column.

What criterion was used to determine what was considered a SNB vs a LNB? Seating? Looking at Boeings website, the -700 lists a maximum takeoff weight about 4500 lbs greater than the -400, but it seats 40 less people than the -800.

 

[flx757]

fokkerjet,

I really don't know how much the SNB vs. LNB weighed into any aircraft order decision. The official company line was that it had nothing to do with it, that they were looking more at increased range and not so much at a large increase in capacity. Besides the obvious need for longer range aircraft, first and foremost, they wanted aircraft that they can fill. Again, that seemed to be the company line.

As far as Airbus not being chosen due to it falling into the LNB category, the A-319 was the model under consideration, and it too, falls into the SNB category.

Finally, I wasn't around during the negotiations for the current contract, so I couldn't say what the criteria was for determining what constituted a "Small" or "Large" Narrowbody Aircraft, but I would think that seating capacity would have a lot to do with it. That seems to be what many companies base their pay structure on. But again, I can't say for sure what the true criteria was, so perhaps someone who has been around longer could shed more light on this subject.

 

[superman]

The LNB and SNB acft categories (and their respecitive payscales) were arrived at by determining the prospective amount of revenue be carried in the cabin. The auth max T/O gross weight of the aircraft was not a definitive factor.

 

[-9Capt]

Fokker

I found the article you spoke about and I think you need to read it again.

It clearly states that pilot pay is the same for the B-717 and 737-700 but higher on the 737-800.

 

[fokkerjet]

Re: AW&ST

In the current issue of AW&ST, an article on the AirTran order talks about pay rates. The article states that the pay rate on the B737-700 will be the same as on the B717, and any orders switching to the B737-800 will only come if/after rates are established on the series.

I think this is what I said, my question was why? flx757 and superman were able to answer it. Thanks!

 

[FL717]

Re: Re: AW&ST

The article states "after rates are established", implying we don't have a pay scale for the 737-800. That statement is misleading or actually it's outright incorrect. The rates are already established in our current contract for the 737-800 (which is classified as a LNB as several have pointed out).

 

[fokkerjet]

actual quote from AW&ST

Let me correct my paraphrase of the article: It actually reads "Beyond seating capacity, one factor in deciding whether to take 737-800s instead of Dash 700s will be pilot pay." I assumed that meant it wasn't decided yet, but that question has been answered. No flaming intended, just a poor assumption!