Airtran strike vote

[JT12345]

When you are paid 30% below average a strike vote of "yes" is a "no brainer"

 

[maxblast72]

Not if you are an uninformed pilot and your only source of information is another uninformed pilot sitting next to you for 3 or 4 days. I think ALPA will do a pretty good job of getting some info to these uninformed pilots.

 

[slaquer5]

Not if you are an uninformed pilot and your only source of information is another uninformed pilot sitting next to you for 3 or 4 days. I think ALPA will do a pretty good job of getting some info to these uninformed pilots.

I would be very leery of ALPA if I was an Airtran pilot. ALPA sucks and has there own agenda. I do not think Airtran fits into there agenda. Take it for what it is worth.

 

[JT12345]

Are you talking about ALPA National or ALPA at the local level?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Interested to see how the senior block votes for a strike...

 

[JerryLundegaard]

Interested to see how the senior block votes for a strike...

How will you determine that?

 

[slaquer5]

Are you talking about ALPA National or ALPA at the local level?

If your asking me I say they are the same. JMO I saw ALPA ruin alot of lives to obtain there objective. ALL I am saying is for the Airtran pilots to be very leery... I wish you guys the best.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If your asking me I say they are the same. JMO I saw ALPA ruin alot of lives to obtain there objective. ALL I am saying is for the Airtran pilots to be very leery... I wish you guys the best.

For example....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How will you determine that?

Ask the ATN MEC

 

[UncleRico]

A strike vote means absolutely nothing if you ask me. Many airlines have voted to strike before negotiations, but few actually have the balls to strike. But, if you do decided to actually strike I will support your efforts.

 

[Turtle21]

If your asking me I say they are the same. JMO I saw ALPA ruin alot of lives to obtain there objective. ALL I am saying is for the Airtran pilots to be very leery... I wish you guys the best.

It only took 14 minutes for the ALPAphiles to come to the rescue.

Airtran is expendable in the eyes of ALPA. But that applies to most pilots that ALPA collects dues from.

 

[PCL_128]

Are you talking about ALPA National or ALPA at the local level?

Makes no difference. Both have the same goal: a better contract for our pilot group.

 

[maxblast72]

Considering ALPA gets 2% of the approximately $200 million that Airtran pilots get paid yearly (my math says between $3.5 and $4 million), seems like ALPA would like the Airtran pilots to get a better contract, grow, and maybe someday be adding a steady $6 million of revenue to ALPA's top line (they are a business after all).

With the amount of revenue cuts ALPA has absorbed due to USAirway's exit, United furloughs, etc, I am sure ALPA doesn't mind a steadier revenue stream.

 

[Turtle21]

Makes no difference. Both have the same goal: a better contract for our pilot group.

In ALPA, all pilots are not equal and all pilot groups are not equal. Those who argue otherwise are either woefully ignorant or are members of the inner circle attempting to foster the Madoff scheme. YOU are ALPA, rah, rah, rah.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

Ask the ATN MEC

Would that divulge the voters' identities? Is it a secret ballot?

 

[Splert]

I would be very leery of ALPA if I was an Airtran pilot. ALPA sucks and has there own agenda. I do not think Airtran fits into there agenda. Take it for what it is worth.

How did HALPA do this last round? HALPA has less than 500 pilots.

 

[DonVerita]

I would be very leery of ALPA if I was an Airtran pilot. ALPA sucks and has there own agenda. I do not think Airtran fits into there agenda. Take it for what it is worth.

Slaquer5...The reason we went with ALPA is because we needed to be with a national level union with a lot of resources. An in-house union may work fine for you guys at SWA because of your employee-first management culture, but over here at ATN, the management culture is employee-last. We have accomplished more with ALPA in 8 months than we ever did in 8 years with NPA plus we got our dues reduced a little as well. So far, so good.

 

[slaquer5]

Slaquer5...The reason we went with ALPA is because we needed to be with a national level union with a lot of resources. An in-house union may work fine for you guys at SWA because of your employee-first management culture, but over here at ATN, the management culture is employee-last. We have accomplished more with ALPA in 8 months than we ever did in 8 years with NPA plus we got our dues reduced a little as well. So far, so good.

Don, ALPA has some good tools, I hope you guys use them wisely and watch out for ALPA national and how they want to help you. In my humble opinion, there is nothing more ALPA would like that to see the fall of Airtran. Nor would ALPA be to happy when/if AT/SWA merge. I wish you guys the best and do think AT/SWA is a good fit. JMO

 

[Lear70]

Don, ALPA has some good tools, I hope you guys use them wisely and watch out for ALPA national and how they want to help you. In my humble opinion, there is nothing more ALPA would like that to see the fall of Airtran. Nor would ALPA be to happy when/if AT/SWA merge. I wish you guys the best and do think AT/SWA is a good fit. JMO

Well, everyone has their opinions...

I personally believe ALPA will use us as a tool to raise the bar collectively in the industry. Like it or not, we still use pattern bargaining throughout the industry and ALPA knows that the ONLY way industry pay rates will come up is if they help us fight for it one airline at a time.

They are spending more on our negotiations than they will make back for YEARS to come. If we go on strike, those costs only increase. Seems like an awful lot of money to throw away (in the Millions) just to get rid of a carrier that will make them money in dues for years to come.

I understand the conspiracy theories and feel for the carriers that have suffered as a result of LOCAL ALPA MEC decisions, but in this case, they gain little by our demise... they actually will LOSE Millions.

As has previously been said, ALPA has done more in a year than the NPA accomplished since I was hired (actually, the NPA gave AWAY a lot of things... ALPA has stopped that wholesale give-back).

YMMV

 

[Lear70]

Would that divulge the voters' identities? Is it a secret ballot?

There's no way for that information to be available.

ALPA uses an outside company, Ballotpoint, specifically BECAUSE Federal Law requires that union votes be secret. By using Ballotpoint, the union can't be accused of tampering or selectively going after small contingencies who don't vote like they want.

Because of that, there's no way to see how the "senior block" votes, except to see the voting numbers as a whole and knowing the demographic in general. I'm personally expecting a 92-95% Yes vote in favor of a legal strike.

Hope it doesn't become necessary, but I'm betting it will...

 

[Ty Webb]

(actually, the NPA gave AWAY a lot of things... ALPA has stopped that wholesale give-back).

Actually, ALPA didn't stop the giveaways, the Pilot Group stopped the giveaways, by petitioning for and then passing an amendment to the C&BL requiring a vote of the membership for practically all LOA's . . . . that found its way into the ALPA policy manual.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

...Because of that, there's no way to see how the "senior block" votes, except to see the voting numbers as a whole and knowing the demographic in general. I'm personally expecting a 92-95% Yes vote in favor of a legal strike.

Hope it doesn't become necessary, but I'm betting it will...

That's what I thought, and why I was asking Rez about it. Didn't make any sense.

You're betting it will be necessary to strike? How long do you think it would have to go on for (days? weeks? longer?).

 

[Lear70]

You're betting it will be necessary to strike? How long do you think it would have to go on for (days? weeks? longer?).

No one can know for certain, and a lot depends on how far apart we are if/when the last-minute negotiating session fails in the midnight hours...

Unfortunately, this is the corner the pilots have been forced into.

Unfortunately, the RLA has no other viable alternatives to self-help. You can't FORCE management to give you an industry-average pay rate and working conditions.

No one WANTS to strike, but if that's what has to be done,,,

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Actually, ALPA didn't stop the giveaways, the Pilot Group stopped the giveaways, by petitioning for and then passing an amendment to the C&BL requiring a vote of the membership for practically all LOA's . . . . that found its way into the ALPA policy manual.

What C&BL was that?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Would that divulge the voters' identities? Is it a secret ballot?

Not sure if the ballotpoint allows for the de-indentification of demographics.... you might be right...

 

[Lear70]

What C&BL was that?

The previous National Pilot's Association C&BL's were amended back in December(ish) of 2008 to require MemRat of ANY LOA or MOU. It hamstrung the then-Board of Directors of the union to give away any more of our contract like they had been doing prior to that.

It was around that same time that the ALPA drive geared up as well, which was passed in March of '09 with a May '09 implementation date.

With that implementation there was an additional ground-swell of concern from the pilots that MemRat go with it, so it was put into the local policy manual. There are still some MOU's being inked, but they are, for the most part, not concessionary in nature like they were in the last 2 years of being under the NPA auspices.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

No one can know for certain, and a lot depends on how far apart we are if/when the last-minute negotiating session fails in the midnight hours...

Unfortunately, this is the corner the pilots have been forced into.

Unfortunately, the RLA has no other viable alternatives to self-help. You can't FORCE management to give you an industry-average pay rate and working conditions.

No one WANTS to strike, but if that's what has to be done,,,

Is the company presently employing professional negotiators, or sending in people to the table who work for AAI and have something at stake, like the pilots do?

 

[Lear70]

Is the company presently employing professional negotiators, or sending in people to the table who work for AAI and have something at stake, like the pilots do?

First, with ALPA involved, we have professional negotiators working right alongside the NC at the table.

Second, Steve Kolski IS a professional negotiator. He's been doing this for over 35 years and is very, very good at his job.

It's just business for them. Unfortunately, in doing that business, it ruins lives and alienates employee groups for decades to come. I think that's an outdated business model for employee relations, but then again, I don't have an MBA and have never run a company with more than 30 employees, so what do I know...

 

[JerryLundegaard]

I can only imagine what the industrial relations courses at Harvard, Yale and Princeton have been teaching the past 20 years to get the corporate environment in this country to where it is today.

 

[400ADude]

What are Harvard, Yale and Princeton doing in a Critter thread?