Airtran shifting the role of some of their RJs

[Eagle757shark]

I thought ValueJet bought AirTran back in the late 90's and kept the AirTran name? Seems to have worked out OK from a growth and profitability angle.

That management team is now running Allegient. This management teams record speaks for itself. It is not speculation, but facts. Did they succeed at getting the 14 Chicago Midway gates and New York Laguadia slots from ATA? Did they, after installing three of their own board members, succeed at acquiring Midwest? The answer, NO!
Didn't say anything about profits and growth over the last 10 years. That has nothing to do with the fact that Alaska has 4 times the cash in the bank than AirTran and the purchase would probable be the other way around if Alaska were interested. Furthermore, the corporate culture is so different, Southwest would probable take a pass as well.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Alaska could right a check right now for AAI if they wanted. And they wouldn't even have to get outside financing, even though they would. AAI can not buy Alaska, but Alaska could buy AAI...

Yep. That $1.1B in the bank does a lot of talking.

 

[relief tube]

Best of luck to you, but our regular fares for the month you start TYS are already $20 lower than your introductory fares.

Of course they are. Have you seen your paycheck? Have you seen your own payrates? F-ing regional pilots make more. You'll always have lower fares. It's pretty easy math.

We all just hope you don't grow to national size so there's more pressure to make this career officially that of a 21st century truck driver.

 

[Ameriagle]

Of course they are. Have you seen your paycheck? Have you seen your own payrates? F-ing regional pilots make more. You'll always have lower fares. It's pretty easy math.

We all just hope you don't grow to national size so there's more pressure to make this career officially that of a 21st century truck driver.

Who's WE......the 12,000 pilot's with resumes on file at Allegiant? It will be interesting to see how the point to point works out for AAI, in Allegiant markets. NW tried to compete directly with AAY in the midwest and could not make it work. My guess is aircraft utilization at Air Tran is twice what it is at Allegiant and it probably has to be to have any hope of generating a profit (new airplanes vs. owned airplanes....It's pretty easy math). As I understand it this is what killed the NW experiment, the inability to deploy airframes the way Allegiant does and make it financially viable. That and pilot compensation!

 

[maxblast72]

You better hope fuel stays low or our Next Gen 737s will have a lower total CASM than your MD-80s even with your $70K year Captains. It is one thing for you guys to run legacies out of leisure travel markets, it is another thing for you to compete with Southwest, Airtran, or Jetblue. Why did you guys pack up and run so fast in SWF when Jetblue and Airtran started service there a few years ago?

 

[Ameriagle]

You better hope fuel stays low or our Next Gen 737s will have a lower total CASM than your MD-80s even with your $70K year Captains. It is one thing for you guys to run legacies out of leisure travel markets, it is another thing for you to compete with Southwest, Airtran, or Jetblue. Why did you guys pack up and run so fast in SWF when Jetblue and Airtran started service there a few years ago?

You sound sure about that! When the cost of fuel was high how many fuel efficient aircraft did you sell or delay delivery on? Allegiant took delivery of airframes and was profittable when oil was $147 a barrel. Air Tran? That 737NG payment buys alot of gas for an MD-80! If Air Tran's goal is to compete directly with Allegiant in order to steal market share they will be successful....you are right Alllegiant will not stick around and fight. That is part of the strategy that has made AAY a profitable airline! My point is Air Tran, like NW willl have a hard time doing it at a profit. Isn't that the point! I know the TYS market did not work out to well the first time around for Air Tran.....and like many of the smaller markets you service, I don't think these new markets are going to be subsidized by anyone! Well maybe your management! By the way how is SWF these days...have not been there in a while?

 

[BeachBummer]

Shouldn't pilot contracts within the same "union" be homogeneous?

hum heheh eheheh he... uuuuh heh you said homo...

 

[BSkin]

Yeah, and my daddy can beat up yours!

 

[BeachBummer]

Yeah, and my daddy can beat up yours!

:nuts: NUUUHAAHHH! MY DAD WILL BEAT UP YOUR DAD INFINITY!:nuts:

 

[flyforfood77777]

Nothing bad to say about Allegiant or it employees, and it obviously (for the time being) must have a sound business plan, but the payrates there are shameful. At this juncture, I would leave aviation, or sit tight working at my mediocre regional job before taking that kind of pay for a 150-seat jet. But with that kind of pay, does the contract have facets contributing to great QOL?

 

[Eagle757shark]

Nothing bad to say about Allegiant or it employees, and it obviously (for the time being) must have a sound business plan, but the payrates there are shameful. At this juncture, I would leave aviation, or sit tight working at my mediocre regional job before taking that kind of pay for a 150-seat jet. But with that kind of pay, does the contract have facets contributing to great QOL?

I'm going to raise the BS flag on your remarks! It gets so old that guys get on here and say they wouldn't work for this and that! Four years ago when Continental was hiring strong their starting pay was around $27,000 dollars a year and no health issurance for the first six months. The line was out the door of guys trying to get onboard. When Pinnacle was hiring off the street Captains, guys were lined up out the door trying to get on there. There have been many many more. I love the attitude that we have in this selfish industry for everyone else to take it for the team. There will always be start ups, and there will always be pilots looking for their opportunity. Like it or not, it is how a free economy works. I guess another way to say it is, you took that low paying starting job and rose up and now someone else has low balled you. Let me give a little history. First it was the pay for training, then the wholly owned were outbid by the independent companies that could do it for less. It just keeps spiraling down. Outsourcing is a way of life that will remain in the airline industry. The door has been opened and will never be shut!

 

[BSkin]

:nuts: NUUUHAAHHH! MY DAD WILL BEAT UP YOUR DAD INFINITY!:nuts:

I'll bet you! My PBJ sandwich against yours! NO WAY your dad can beat up mine!

What a thread!

 

[Ameriagle]

Nothing bad to say about Allegiant or it employees, and it obviously (for the time being) must have a sound business plan, but the payrates there are shameful. At this juncture, I would leave aviation, or sit tight working at my mediocre regional job before taking that kind of pay for a 150-seat jet. But with that kind of pay, does the contract have facets contributing to great QOL?

I will save these remarks and show them to you in the not to distant future when you are looking for hiring intel at Allegiant! Of course, you are just one of the many on this board who say one thing and do another!

 

[crxpilot]

I will save these remarks and show them to you in the not to distant future when you are looking for hiring intel at Allegiant! Of course, you are just one of the many on this board who say one thing and do another!

I wish nothing but the best for AirTran and all the other pilots of other airlines. We're all in this together!

 

[flyforfood77777]

I wasn't being sarcastic, but how is the contract there? How is quality of life? With no other information other than payrates, I stand by what I said, I would never apply there (I don't even think I was ever qualified anyhow). And again, no ill-will towards Allegiant, they have found their niche, but it seems like they are riding to profitability a little too much on their pilots' backs. At least at a place like Continental (I agree first-year pay there is ridiculous and six months without healthcare is criminal) there is much room for income growth there as you upgrade seat and aircraft.

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

You better hope fuel stays low or our Next Gen 737s will have a lower total CASM than your MD-80s even with your $70K year Captains. It is one thing for you guys to run legacies out of leisure travel markets, it is another thing for you to compete with Southwest, Airtran, or Jetblue. Why did you guys pack up and run so fast in SWF when Jetblue and Airtran started service there a few years ago?

Whoa! Easy there, buddy. You need to get some facts straight before spewing crap like that. We have never entered a market that is already served by a legacy carrier. NW put in nonstops to Las Vegas AFTER we started in an attempt to drive us out. That attempt failed. We pulled out of SWF because there are so many other cities that we could make money on, so why waste time competing head to head with two other airlines? And you guys didn't even stay there that long!

Listen, I will never, ever defend the payscale here. It's terrible. BUT, we have made constant improvements over the past 3 years and we expect that to continue. It's very easy to walk onto an airline with an established contract that OTHER people helped to create, and then berate others for attempting to impove their own companies. I can only imagine what the legacy pilots in the 70's thought of those guys who went to a little startup out of Texas. Am I saying Allegiant will end up like SWA? Not exactly, but anything can happen in this business.

I'm not even going to address your fuel and CASM comment because the events of 2008 speak for themselves.

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

I wasn't being sarcastic, but how is the contract there? How is quality of life? With no other information other than payrates, I stand by what I said, I would never apply there (I don't even think I was ever qualified anyhow). And again, no ill-will towards Allegiant, they have found their niche, but it seems like they are riding to profitability a little too much on their pilots' backs. At least at a place like Continental (I agree first-year pay there is ridiculous and six months without healthcare is criminal) there is much room for income growth there as you upgrade seat and aircraft.

There is no "contract" per se because we are non-union. However, QOL depends on your current situation. I live at my base and I am in my own bed every night. I spend time with my family that I would otherwise waste in some dank hotel. Virtually everything in our work rules is a work in progress, but the progress has been rapid. But we still have a ways to go. This company is not for everyone, so you're definitely not hurting anyone's feelings by not applying.

As far as our compensation and profitability, if every pilot on our seniority list was paid at the current SWA rates, we still would have been profitable for 2008. It's all in the management, not the pilot pay. Why did Skybus fail (paid less than us)? Why did all of the legacies take a bath in 2008 (paid much more than us)? The argument just doesn't hold water.

 

[DonVerita]

I don't know why you guys are having this conversation about Allegiant in the first place.

Allegiant is a Niche market carrier. If going to Ft. Wayne or Toledo and St. Pete or Stanford, FL a couple of times a week makes money for them, then hats off to 'em.

The rest of us are major airline Network carriers. We should not be comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Ty Webb]

Odd that no one has mentioned the recent purchase of 10% of AAI stock by . . . drumroll please . . . the save fund that owns quite a bit of Allegiant.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Odd that no one has mentioned the recent purchase of 10% of AAI stock by . . . drumroll please . . . the save fund that owns quite a bit of Allegiant.

Are you referring to PAR?