AirTran QOL vs $$$

[WOWIdidntKnow]

I've read many AirTran Captains here proclaim that they thought SL9 simply took too much seniority for them to live with in the deal. And many said they prefer QOL to $$$.

As I look at the seniority list that existed in SL9, it appears that every AirTran Captain could have bid back to first officer with SL9 seniority and they would have had superior seniority as a SWA FO then they would as an AirTran Captain.

Here is the rub, as a SWA FO you would make more $$$ and have a superior QOL than compared to being an AirTran Captain.

So in essence, SL9 offered you the same or better dollars you currently are getting and a superior to equal QOL.

What am I missing for the AirTran Captains?

 

[GuppyWN]

Here we go.

Gup

 

[Kharma Police]

What am I missing for the AirTran Captains?

Simple answer, you are missing ice cream.

 

[luv2fly]

It doesn't matter. SL9 is dead, the money is gone!

 

[CA1900]

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8545/justwalkaway.jpg

 

[Whataburger]

More importantly, who is updating the 'Meter in 1hr 39mins?

 

[4day]

It doesn't matter. SL9 is dead, the money is gone!

I have to ask what money? All you guys say money money money. The CBA dictates the rates and work rules. there is no new CBA. Are you talking about CA retention slots? That Money. Is the money coming from SWAPA? Can you say those rates will be there in 5 years? Where is all this money? Is SW gunna take away longevity? I think not. Are you writing the check? PLease explain, for the luv of god what money. The 2 million in every email that you sent out to our houses. Will that money ever change. Sounds like united in 1999

 

[Kharma Police]

I've read many AirTran Captains here proclaim that they thought SL9 simply took too much seniority for them to live with in the deal. And many said they prefer QOL to $$$.

As I look at the seniority list that existed in SL9, it appears that every AirTran Captain could have bid back to first officer with SL9 seniority and they would have had superior seniority as a SWA FO then they would as an AirTran Captain.

Here is the rub, as a SWA FO you would make more $$$ and have a superior QOL than compared to being an AirTran Captain.

So in essence, SL9 offered you the same or better dollars you currently are getting and a superior to equal QOL.

What am I missing for the AirTran Captains?

Wow!, it's been almost a year since this was announced and I never thought about what you just said. Thanks man for paying the 10 bucks to tell us that. I take back all the things I said about this board being useless and for entertainment only.

 

[redflyer65]

What am I missing for the AirTran Captains?

Maybe the ego of being in the left seat? I have never understood that. Pay me well in the right seat with great QOL and no left seat responsiblity. Makes for a great job.

Not saying that everyone is like that, but definitely some.

 

[Just thinking]

"As I look at the seniority list that existed in SL9, it appears that every AirTran Captain could have bid back to first officer with SL9 seniority and they would have had superior seniority as a SWA FO then they would as an AirTran Captain.".......................................

This is completely incorrect. Your seniority number is exactly the same. The only thing that the Captain had was a seat protection. His seniority number as a late 2004 hire at AT put him behind a first officer at SWA that was hired in April 2008. We gained none of the work rules for up to 30 months from SOC. If he chose to bid back to FO his seniority number would not change and would not be able to bid back to Captain because once his seat was vacated it went away. When each of our senior Captains retired, their captain seat went with him. The very last SWA pilot on the seniority list as of 9/26/2010 (hired September 2008) immediately jumped over 600 numbers. We lost our retirement contributions for three months until the pay kicked in on April 1st. We were still stuck with our work rules and none of the flexibility or ability to improve upon our schedules that your CBA allows. Every 737 Captain that was below the ATL base number would be super junior for the next 10+ years, drifting around the system.

No AT first officers would be able to upgrade until your September 2008 first officer had upgraded.

SL9 was a tenuously built house of cards that propped up the seniority list. "Economic incentives" should have gone to the SWA side of the deal.

Kudos to the SWA pilots that showed up at HQ insupport of the company. AT pilots share your enthusiasm and support. The AT pilot group is professional. We have been awarded numerous awards for service over the past 5 years during strife and drama in the union, with the company, being kicked in the teeth every time we turned around.... and we maintained our professionalism to ensure that the customer and crew were taken care of time and time again. We support your HQ and their keen insights. We spent many months agreeing to a process to resolve the issues that would be faced by the unions. This pilot group is NOT thumbing our noses at SWA. We are not thumbing our noses at SWAPA. We respectfully disagree with what was brought back from Dallas.

SWA 737's will be coming to AT in 2012 to do a lot more flying. That will free up the "other" 737's to fly the "near international" routes and capitalize on the money that is being lost to SWA for the vacation destinations. The synergies will enable SWA to reach throughout the US. Will SWA ever compete with the China market or African continent? Will SWA ever be the businessman's first choice? Who knows???? Will SWA be a major force to be realized in the United States for many years to come? Most certainly so.

 

[Empennage]

I have to ask what money? All you guys say money money money. The CBA dictates the rates and work rules. there is no new CBA. Are you talking about CA retention slots? That Money. Is the money coming from SWAPA? Can you say those rates will be there in 5 years? Where is all this money? Is SW gunna take away longevity? I think not. Are you writing the check? PLease explain, for the luv of god what money. The 2 million in every email that you sent out to our houses. Will that money ever change. Sounds like united in 1999

I'm glad you feel it appropriate to bank your future on your statement. There's no reason to discuss the financials any longer. I'm sorry You want to dilute the debate with the continued talking points. They are getting old and are completely ineffective.

 

[Empennage]

"As I look at the seniority list that existed in SL9, it appears that every AirTran Captain could have bid back to first officer with SL9 seniority and they would have had superior seniority as a SWA FO then they would as an AirTran Captain.".......................................

This is completely incorrect. Your seniority number is exactly the same. The only thing that the Captain had was a seat protection. His seniority number as a late 2004 hire at AT put him behind a first officer at SWA that was hired in April 2008. We gained none of the work rules for up to 30 months from SOC. If he chose to bid back to FO his seniority number would not change and would not be able to bid back to Captain because once his seat was vacated it went away. When each of our senior Captains retired, their captain seat went with him. The very last SWA pilot on the seniority list as of 9/26/2010 (hired September 2008) immediately jumped over 600 numbers. We lost our retirement contributions for three months until the pay kicked in on April 1st. We were still stuck with our work rules and none of the flexibility or ability to improve upon our schedules that your CBA allows. Every 737 Captain that was below the ATL base number would be super junior for the next 10+ years, drifting around the system.

No AT first officers would be able to upgrade until your September 2008 first officer had upgraded.

SL9 was a tenuously built house of cards that propped up the seniority list. "Economic incentives" should have gone to the SWA side of the deal.

Kudos to the SWA pilots that showed up at HQ insupport of the company. AT pilots share your enthusiasm and support. The AT pilot group is professional. We have been awarded numerous awards for service over the past 5 years during strife and drama in the union, with the company, being kicked in the teeth every time we turned around.... and we maintained our professionalism to ensure that the customer and crew were taken care of time and time again. We support your HQ and their keen insights. We spent many months agreeing to a process to resolve the issues that would be faced by the unions. This pilot group is NOT thumbing our noses at SWA. We are not thumbing our noses at SWAPA. We respectfully disagree with what was brought back from Dallas.

SWA 737's will be coming to AT in 2012 to do a lot more flying. That will free up the "other" 737's to fly the "near international" routes and capitalize on the money that is being lost to SWA for the vacation destinations. The synergies will enable SWA to reach throughout the US. Will SWA ever compete with the China market or African continent? Will SWA ever be the businessman's first choice? Who knows???? Will SWA be a major force to be realized in the United States for many years to come? Most certainly so.

Thank you for your constructive post. There are not many lately.

While I understand your points, I have to ask. Do you think the next offer will or would be better than sl9? I think that answer has been made clear.

 

[WOWIdidntKnow]

Just Thinking your points may be valid, I will go back and look. What Pct Capt are you on the currrent AAI List?

 

[Just thinking]

HQ has made it perfectly clear that the economic incentives have been taken off the table. I believe that HQ interjected itself in the process too early. They should have allowed the unions to negotiate longer. More time was spent on agreeing on the process agreement than they spent negotiating the SLI. In an effort to "expedite" the process I believe it muddled it and caused more problems. I personally believe that SL9 was a double edged sword for the AT pilots and much of the languange that was drafted was an effort to shore up that house of cards (resulting in the extra time after the 16th.)

1) I do believe that a DIFFERENT offer will be reached. "Better" is a subjective word in this discussion because the risks associated with SL9 posed great concern. This pilot group is reasonable. We respect the efforts and energies that have been expended by both pilot groups in the building of two, successful, airlines. There is and always will be a difference of opinion between the sides. I also believe that as professional pilots we can continue to perform and succeed for the greater good of SWA and its customers.

2) Right at 50%+..... drop to 82% overall.

 

[redflyer65]

I'd say the odds of a second deal are less than 30%. I think plan B is what they will go with.

The ALPA letter showed they still plan on pushing for arbitration. ALPA at it's finest.

 

[St. Nic]

I'd say the odds of a second deal are less than 30%. I think plan B is what they will go with.

The ALPA letter showed they still plan on pushing for arbitration. ALPA at it's finest.

This is in the bag for the LUV guys- AT guys trusted the wrong union, their about to be sent to the firing line. Game over.

 

[CF34-3B1]

What did GK and Co really want out of this acquisition?
1) Atlanta - He got that, no matter what happens to the ALPA pilots.
2) Eliminate A/T as a competitor - Done
3) The synergies associated with a SOC.

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

 

[redflyer65]

What did GK and Co really want out of this acquisition?
1) Atlanta - He got that, no matter what happens to the ALPA pilots.
2) Eliminate A/T as a competitor - Done
3) The synergies associated with a SOC.

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

Number 3 is right around the corner brother. Just waiting for the Section 1 codeshare relief in concert with the newhires. Gonna be interesting for sure.

 

[DonVerita]

This is in the bag for the LUV guys- AT guys trusted the wrong union, their about to be sent to the firing line. Game over.

And you base that statement on what? Your own distorted perception? Where's your evidence? Get real.

This is a seniority dispute between ALPA and SWAPA and has nothing to do with GK's plans or with SWA itself. But people like you, who have no dog in the hunt, just love to stir the pot with factless, unsupported, fear mongering nonsense.

 

[Bake]

Don, I think what you wrote above says it all. You guys from Airtran do not understand SWA. I'm not trying to debate you nor flame you here. This is not a dispute between AlPA and SWAPA. This has everything to do with GK's plans. If you want, I will PM you my number and we can talk. We at SWA live this crap everyday, we know what our MGT is like and how they think. I have spoke with Lear several times, great guy, full of passion for AT and it's pilots. I don't know how many times southwest guys have to say it, but we are not trying to instill fear into you, we are telling you how southwest airlines does things. PM me and I will send you my number.

Baker