AirTran QOL vs $$$

[redflyer65]

Don,

When Gary speaks, it's not fear mongering. We (the Southwest Pilots), have lived it. See Bake's post above.

It seems we can speak until we are blue in the face with some Airtran guys and they immediately go to 'fear mongering'. If I were in your shoes, I would listen up to Gary and tell ALPA that you want to be apart of the list. This deal is slip sliding away with every ALPA mis-step.

This is not fear mongering, it's reality.

RF

 

[Kharma Police]

Don,

When Gary speaks, it's not fear mongering. We (the Southwest Pilots), have lived it. See Bake's post above.

It seems we can speak until we are blue in the face with some Airtran guys and they immediately go to 'fear mongering'. If I were in your shoes, I would listen up to Gary and tell ALPA that you want to be apart of the list. This deal is slip sliding away with every ALPA mis-step.

This is not fear mongering, it's reality.

RF

I think you guys are afraid of saying, "no" to Gary which is good (for us). He is obviously not used to it, as shown by him being surprised and upset about ALPA's decision. My question is, does SWAPA have the balls to say, "no" to Gary? I think you guys talk tough but will roll over in a heart beat. I mean, you guys couldn't even say, "no" when they took some silly headset from you.

 

[redflyer65]

I think you guys are afraid of saying, "no" to Gary which is good (for us). He is obviously not used to it, as shown by him being surprised and upset about ALPA's decision. My question is, does SWAPA have the balls to say, "no" to Gary? I think you guys talk tough but will roll over in a heart beat. I mean, you guys couldn't even say, "no" when they took some silly headset from you.

Kharma,

Thanks for stepping into it dude. You have no idea what you are talking about. We've said NO to him before. You need to do a little more research before you stick your neck out like that. The letter from Gary and the pilots at the GO mean that we are ready to accomplish this in-house if needed. If you don't believe that, then procede at your own caution, and Good Luck.

RF

 

[Kharma Police]

Kharma,

Thanks for stepping into it dude. You have no idea what you are talking about. We've said NO to him before. You need to do a little more research before you stick your neck out like that. The letter from Gary and the pilots at the GO mean that we are ready to accomplish this in-house if needed. If you don't believe that, then procede at your own caution, and Good Luck.

RF

Don't worry, he will give SWAPA the opportunity to say, "no" in the future to a big decision. I would love to watch Steve Chase try and do it!

Quick question, can you guys refuse a draft or extension? If so Red, have you ever done it?

 

[redflyer65]

We've turned down an entire Section 6 contract Kharma.

 

[Kharma Police]

We've turned down an entire Section 6 contract Kharma.

And you got rid your of hats too, you guys have some serious huevos!

 

[redflyer65]

Kharma,

You can wear that hat if you want to, it might garner some funny looks...just like the WON LUV lanyards.

RF

 

[bendover]

This needs to go to arbitration. That way a neutral 3rd party arbitrator will come up with something fair for all. Why would either side fear this? They shouldn't.

 

[Empennage]

This needs to go to arbitration. That way a neutral 3rd party arbitrator will come up with something fair for all. Why would either side fear this? They shouldn't.

....because this works out so well.

 

[OurMoney1]

This will go down in the books as one of the bigger airline union plunders of this decade.

What were those guys thinking???

 

[Kharma Police]

This will go down in the books as one of the bigger airline union plunders of this decade.

What were those guys thinking???

Plunders?, that's a good thing, right? Like pirates plundering a village for gold and women?

Arggggghhhh!!!!! ye ALPA scallywags, it be time to plunder the Southwest Lubbock station!!!

 

[GuppyWN]

Don't mess with Texas.

Gup

 

[maxthrottle]

I don't think us third party guys are fear mongering. I have friends at both places. The Air Trans guys seem to be living in some sort of alternate reality recently. A few are starting to come out of it, now. The arbitrator is a third party guy too, so perhaps you all should listen to us a bit more. You all keep talking bout his massive seniority loss, even though as an FO you'll be making more than what a AT CA would have made prior to the SWA acquisition announcement. So the seniority argument loses a lot. FWIW.

 

[Kharma Police]

I don't think us third party guys are fear mongering. I have friends at both places. The Air Trans guys seem to be living in some sort of alternate reality recently. A few are starting to come out of it, now. The arbitrator is a third party guy too, so perhaps you all should listen to us a bit more. You all keep talking bout his massive seniority loss, even though as an FO you'll be making more than what a AT CA would have made prior to the SWA acquisition announcement. So the seniority argument loses a lot. FWIW.

Although I respectfully disagree, I thank you for your input in our spirited debate.

 

[scoreboardII]

Herb said it best:

"Quality of life is having a job".
​

This was his response as he was asked about why the company wasn't concerned how much people had to work.

The legal aspect of QOL, what is it? What is QOL worth? What is the harm that can be shown to have occured if you mess up someones QOL?

In legal terms, you can't. QOL is a nebulous term which is a result of monetary reality. Not the other way around.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

I've read many AirTran Captains here proclaim that they thought SL9 simply took too much seniority for them to live with in the deal. And many said they prefer QOL to $$$.

As I look at the seniority list that existed in SL9, it appears that every AirTran Captain could have bid back to first officer with SL9 seniority and they would have had superior seniority as a SWA FO then they would as an AirTran Captain.

Here is the rub, as a SWA FO you would make more $$$ and have a superior QOL than compared to being an AirTran Captain.

So in essence, SL9 offered you the same or better dollars you currently are getting and a superior to equal QOL.

What am I missing for the AirTran Captains?

So what that AT guys would still make more.. How is that a fair deal for everyone?? You are a moron.. truly are.

 

[sfomarc]

I left a job a long time ago for SWA. It was a pretty good paying job and the quality of life was way better than I will ever see here. I worked a maximum of 12 days of month there. In the summer maybe 6 days a month. Pay stayed the same for 12 or less days and paid more for over 12 days.

The point is the future was not as bright as SWA in the long run. I sucked up the initial pay cut and moved to the right seat to protect my future and the future of my family.

QOL is great but when the bills come at the end of the month QOL doesnt mean jack.

I will not pass judgement until I see the "new deal." I for one do not want to see 1 pilot become unemployed on either side of this deal.

 

[madjack]

AAI is not used to negotiating with SWA mgmt...rule of thumb: If you don't take deal number one, you get a lousier deal number 2...we saw that in our last contract negotiations...the company usually wins when the pilots "take a stand"...just the way it works...they (SWA) have all the cards to play...we are amateurs...good news they (SWA mgmt) are not out to screw the employees, but they need to be profitable...