AirTran Possibly Raising Cash for ???

[Reebo]

AirTran is saving for the DELTA xmas sale

 

[FL717]

Alaska pilots do not make "ALOT" more than AirTran pilots anymore especially when you consider upgrade times.

This comparison was done with an AirTran pilot upgrading at the end of three years and the Alaska pilot at the end of six years.

Alaska has a lot more market cap and current assets, but AirTran has much more cash on hand.

I will change my statement from "AlOT more money" to just "MORE money". With that admission... I have to respectfully disagree with your train of thought on how payrates should be calculated.

I do not believe that pay comparison should be calculated on hypothetical earnings and hypothetical growth, and hypothetical future upgrade....EVER..... unless you are an investor.... and I'm not....I'm a paid employee.

A person should be paid for EXACTLY the job that they hold at that time they hold it. I hear that hypothetical calculation mumbo jumbo alot at AirTran that the First Officer pay is justifiably low because "they will upgrade fast" and make more over the years. B.S. I'm not a speculator.

Okay... lets go ahead and move forward with that hypothetical theory.... now they upgrade at AirTran and if you compare a Captain payrate year for year at Alaska.... they are still very much below Alaska pilots payrates until about year 10.

Dollar for dollar...... seat for seat... guarantee for guarantee.... Alaska Pilots in fact earn more than AirTran Pilots...... period. And that is AFTER their pay concession.

I also have to disagree with your statement that AirTran has nore cash on hand. I believe that Alaska has double the cash on hand that AirTran has..... but I may be wrong about that and you may be correct. I don't have time to look this morning.

Finally.... remember that hypothetically you are absolutely CORRECT using your current career earning calculations theory....... I just don't believe Pilots should ever be paid hypothetically..... or justify low pay that way.

It sh!ts on the junior Pilots and could/can/does come crashing down when that growth stops or never materializes..... and now I'm stuck working for cr*p wages in a position that demands more compensation.

Cheers!

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I do not believe that pay comparison should be calculated on hypothetical earnings and hypothetical growth, and hypothetical future upgrade....EVER..... unless you are an investor.... and I'm not....I'm a paid employee.

A person should be paid for EXACTLY the job that they hold at that time they hold it. I hear that hypothetical calculation mumbo jumbo alot at AirTran that the First Officer pay is justifiably low because "they will upgrade fast" and make more over the years. B.S. I'm not a speculator.

Lots of these young pilots are speculators with their careers. Some would say investors. Thinking like stock traders. I'm not saying that is wrong or right. just is.

 

[FlyingCricket]

I do not believe that pay comparison should be calculated on hypothetical earnings and hypothetical growth, and hypothetical future upgrade....EVER..... unless you are an investor.... and I'm not....I'm a paid employee.

I'll have to partially disagree with you. I think that you have to look at the future when evaluating which airline you should work for. Failure to assess what the future holds and factor that into your career decisions could prove to be a dangerous move. Like it or not, you are in many ways an investor in your chosen company. You are investing your time, effort, and very importantly, your seniority in the airline you choose to work for. Your fortune will ride largely with the fortune of your company. Limiting the scope of your airline analysis to a year-by-year comparison of pay scales is myopic if for no other reason than the pay scales are only good until the next contract (or until your airline enters bankruptcy proceedings).

Five years ago, the legacy carriers were where virtually every serious and respectable aspiring airline pilot wanted to go. Southwest and its low pay was looked upon by most with derision. Now, the castaways who took jobs at Southwest look like geniuses. Some of the guys who went to the legacies, in retrospect, look like they may have succumbed to lemming disease. It is notoriously difficult to analyze and predict the future, but you've got to try to do it. Another example, Alaska's new contract is good for two years. Will they strike in two years? Alaska's pay cut has seriously hurt morale and operational performance in the last three months. Will that continue? Will that begin to cut into profitability and the good reputation of Alaska Airlines? How will this effect your career if you are considering Alaska? Will that end up resulting in further concessions down the road? Southwest has incredible fuel hedges in place but sharply increasing labor costs. How will these two factors effect Southwest in the future? Will they ask for concessions in a couple of years or will the fuel hedges and the "love" drive even more pay raises? I say you have to try to analyze these risks. An airline career decision is not simply a straight comparison of pay scales. You definitely have to factor that in, but it's by no means the whole picture.

I completely agree with you, however, that AirTran's FO pay is unacceptably low. It is only acceptable in light of the relatively quick upgrade there. If growth stagnates, then you are stuck at regional-level wages for who knows how long. When looking at AirTran, I say you have to look at their growth plan and growth potential and analyze if it will actually materialize.

 

[TV9Driver]

AirTran FO pay is unacceptably low? I'm a first year FO at Airtran, and I'm on pace to make approximately $50K this year. Is that considered low? Ask a newhire Continental pilot, who is making $30K(?) first year if he thinks that is low.

 

[IAHERJ]

Then ask a Continental 2-4th year FO what he/she is making. I'm on 3rd year FO pay at AirTran and will probably, with perdiem make around 74K for 2005. At Continental I'd be holding widebody FO by year 3 and at min reserve pay I'd be making more than what I'm going to make flying my butt off at AirTran. I agree Continental's first year pay is insulting considering they really want people with 4 year degrees who have at least 5 years experience in the industry (pic 121/military) and start them off at 30K the first year. They then brag about being a fortune 100 best companies to work for airline. The pilots over there are not exactly happy with the current concessionary contract and I see them snapping the rates back in the next few years including some major work rule changes that they agreed to recently in order to help the airline.

 

[Nocturnal1]

Interesting how this thread went from the original posting to a discussion of pilot pay rates. We could discuss this for infinity but the reality is simple. Those of us that have a job are lucky. Remember that first solo flight, part of you was scared and part of you was screaming "I did it." We all know we'd like to get paid more, but the market will not bear it. This thread sounds like pro sports players whinning on ESPN. What other sector of the economy continues to bear the ridiculous cost of fuel and not raise prices? The airline industry is in a "war of attrition" a.k.a. WWI or Vietnam. It's a blood fest with only pain and misery for all. The only reason that newer airlines have prospered is to keep costs low...all costs including labor.

The federal government continues to support the corporate world rather than labor. Any threat of a strike by an airline is immediately met with citations of the Railway Labor Act. Airline management continues to be unwilling to negociate in good faith, instead, delaying while discrediting labor and starting hate mail campaigns to it's employees full of half truths. All the while paying outlandish million dollar bonuses to failing executives.

This is the wrong line of work for those aspiring to wealth. Instead, it's become a "JOB", show up - do your thing - and go home. Employee loyalty is a thing of the past. Management's ultimate oxymoron is to preach teamwork (doing more with less) while taking care of their own, simultaneously crapping on the employees. This clash is what keeps labor unions in business and inhibits "real teamwork" and loyalty. Don't play into it. Life isn't fair...it is what it is and what you make it. If you don't like it change it or shutup!

 

[JethroF15]

Actually I think they are raising cash to bail Ty Webb out of the flightinfo penalty box!

 

[gt1900]

Probably raising cash to buy Midwest....hehe...just starting chit! As far as cash in the bank...Alaska has about double what AAI has. I believe AAI has about 350 mil and Alaska has about 750 mil....Don't quote me though. I'm just a stupid airline pilot!!

 

[Beaver_Liquors]

On their 2Q confrence call i believe they mentioned something about this, is has to do with the fact the are going to be buying airplanes instead of leasing them next year, so i think it has something to do with cash needed for down payments. Not 100% sure though. i think they are planing on purchasing 14 of the 17 deliveries next year. Someone with more business skill could probably listen to the call and give more of an exact answer.

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