AirTran pilots will own the SW upgrades

[fr8doggie]

You see, Howard? This is what I'm talking about. wavey is exactly the kind of delusional mind you're dealing with over there who thinks that not only is he entitled to a 10% raise, but that it's actually possible.

wavey, you talk of ideology when realism is all that matters. Realistically, what you think you deserve is not achievable. The NMB isn't going to help you get what you want. So the only way for you to get it is to hammer the company (picketing, billboards, newspaper ads, etc.), which you clearly are unwilling to do. So you have no realistic way of achieving what you want. Get real!

But they have "leverage"!

 

[waveflyer]

Well pcl,
When you get real, you end up overweight and buying your first job-

Not to throw daggers, but .... You are basically saying in a warming up global pilot shortage where college kids are choosing other professions instead of flying bc it's not worth it that we can't get a cost of living adjustment?

You are absolutely right that there are other areas we can and should address, but as a business man- I can promise you this-
Swa knows how much money it outlays to Swapa- they do not care what form that money is laid out in. It's all out of the coffers and into our hands whether it goes to more pilots for better reserve rules, or better retirement, or better work rules

To that end, I'm not sure I care about the rate either as long as my w2 gets bigger.
But to say 10% is unrealistic when we've been flat over many many years and have no stock mechanism to truly capture the value we've given towards this 17% and a $billion dollar year is just as naive

If I'm the problem bc of where my yes vote stands- that's alright.
Just try and remember PCL's expectations have been a lot less lined up with reality most of his career so...

 

[PCL_128]

wave, you just don't know what you're talking about. It's as simple as that. So you resort to name calling and insults since you can't address reality. Sorry, but you'll learn the hard way.

 

[Flycatcher99]

No, you just don't listen. It doesn't matter what the union's "stated goal" is if the membership isn't falling in line with it. We get a lot of SWA jumpseaters and nonrevs. And I don't think I've heard a single one of them think that the $3/hr increase that you're talking about would be acceptable. The membership is living in a fantasy world where they're entitled to a 10% pay raise. This is going to bite you in the ass big time. Count on it.

I don't disagree with your prediction, PCL. What I find interesting though is that you still like to badmouth SWA's payrates, like the union thug that you've labeled yourself. This is from one of your earlier posts:

"Allow me to repeat that: today, 15 years later, SWA has STILL not hit pre-9/11 legacy narrowbody rates. You have absolutely nothing to be proud of. Period."

So which is it? Do you think pilots should burn SWA looking for better than 1% raises with the same union thug mentality that you used in the quote above? Or do the pilots accept the nature of the beast and adjust expectations to a much more modest level?

I'm confused!

 

[PCL_128]

Flycatcher, you shouldn't be confused. I'm not criticizing SWAPA's pay rates. They're pretty damned good for today's world, in fact. But the post you quote was responding to SWA pilots who wanted to brag about those rates, and there's nothing to brag about. Your rates are only industry leading (or close to it) because everyone else took a fall in bankruptcy, not because you were such awesome hard-nosed negotiators.

And that brings us to the conversation from the last few posts. Things have changed. You're now near the top of the heap because everyone else took that fall, so you're in the same world as everyone else in traditional bargaining. You can't ride any coattails of the legacies. You either generate leverage for yourself, or you accept that there won't be any significant raises. And from what I've seen, there just aren't any SWA pilots who are willing to do what it takes to generate leverage. They're all too busy drinking the kool aid and talking about what a swell guy Gary is.

 

[waveflyer]

wave, you just don't know what you're talking about. It's as simple as that. So you resort to name calling and insults since you can't address reality. Sorry, but you'll learn the hard way.

Yes, it will be so difficult to keep being me

 

[waveflyer]

I disagree with your last sentence above pcl

There is leverage and we can and will generate it if and when we need to.

You sit over at air tran and claim to "know" what Swapa pilots think-
How about you get uber opinionated after youve transitioned

 

[fr8doggie]

I disagree with your last sentence above pcl

There is leverage and we can and will generate it if and when we need to.

You sit over at air tran and claim to "know" what Swapa pilots think-
How about you get uber opinionated after youve transitioned

Wave: What is your leverage and how will you exercise it?

 

[waveflyer]

You'll see

 

[redflyer65]

Wow. I've never seen this many Non-SW guys interested in what our union is doing and what it has up it's sleeve.

I'll agree we aren't the most militant group, but I see bright spots for leverage if SWAPA has the balls to deploy it. And at the rate the company is moving that might actually be a possibility.

I agree with Wave, wait and see.