AirTran pilots will own the SW upgrades

[Luv2BFlyin]

We are going to get insane gains in the next contract. Retro pay, substantial pay increases, define contribution benefit, right of return and amazing reserve rules. All of this is going to happen because we pay SWAPA to get it for us and because we are just awesome people in general. In the meantime I'm going to pick up some open time and check my SWAPA app to see if any new side letters have been signed by the union.

From the outside, this appears to be typical of the RSW mentality, and it's good for someone on the inside to point this out. Good luck with that, we're all counting on you.

 

[HowardBorden]

But every SWAPA pilot I hear talking about negotiations is talking about pay rates. They're going to be sorely disappointed, or worse yet, you'll be mired in negotiations for the next 5 years because they won't be willing to accept reality.

I don't know who it is that you are listening to speak about negotiations but I can assure you they are not the norm. The union has laid out 3 focus areas, reserve, retirement and rates. I am hearing more talk about reserve then ever before at SWA. Retirement is an area that every single SWA pilot knows we are lagging the industry. Of course pay rates are being discussed, as always, but they are receiving less focus than ever before because we are finally talking about the areas we are lagging behind and pay rates aren't it.

 

[PCL_128]

You miss the point. Putting rates as one of the three cornerstones (or whatever buzzword is being used) is a big mistake. SWAPA should be preparing pilots for the inevitable: rates are barely going to move. People should be prepared for 1% raises. And they aren't.

 

[HowardBorden]

You miss the point. Putting rates as one of the three cornerstones (or whatever buzzword is being used) is a big mistake. SWAPA should be preparing pilots for the inevitable: rates are barely going to move. People should be prepared for 1% raises. And they aren't.

Again, you are woefully misinformed. The union stated goal with regard to pay is:
"Hard pay rate increases targeted to maintain industry-leading pay."

Currently SWA narrow body rates are surpassed by only Delta 757 in the passenger arena. A Delta 757 pays $219, while the SWA 737 rate is $216 when converting TFP to hourly. The $3.00 raise is certainly achievable and anything less would be completely unacceptable.

 

[PCL_128]

Again, you are woefully misinformed.

No, you just don't listen. It doesn't matter what the union's "stated goal" is if the membership isn't falling in line with it. We get a lot of SWA jumpseaters and nonrevs. And I don't think I've heard a single one of them think that the $3/hr increase that you're talking about would be acceptable. The membership is living in a fantasy world where they're entitled to a 10% pay raise. This is going to bite you in the ass big time. Count on it.

 

[HowardBorden]

No, you just don't listen. It doesn't matter what the union's "stated goal" is if the membership isn't falling in line with it. We get a lot of SWA jumpseaters and nonrevs. And I don't think I've heard a single one of them think that the $3/hr increase that you're talking about would be acceptable. The membership is living in a fantasy world where they're entitled to a 10% pay raise. This is going to bite you in the ass big time. Count on it.

Well, obviously your extremely limited sampling trumps the conversations I have daily at work.

I was simply addressing this statement: "Putting rates as one of the three cornerstones (or whatever buzzword is being used) is a big mistake. SWAPA should be preparing pilots for the inevitable: rates are barely going to move."

Rates absolutely need to be addressed, they can't simply be ignored. We are targeting a comprehensive approach to the compensation package. Are you suggesting we simply acquiesce and tell the membership our rates are good enough, we need to forget improving them?

I have yet to hear ANYONE demanding a $21.60 raise in this round of bargaining. We have multiple compensation goals and rates are a necessary and realistic part of that package, as they should be. Leave the "managed expectations" on the ALPA side of the partition where it belongs.

 

[waveflyer]

No, you just don't listen. It doesn't matter what the union's "stated goal" is if the membership isn't falling in line with it. We get a lot of SWA jumpseaters and nonrevs. And I don't think I've heard a single one of them think that the $3/hr increase that you're talking about would be acceptable. The membership is living in a fantasy world where they're entitled to a 10% pay raise. This is going to bite you in the ass big time. Count on it.

This is what has kept PCL working diligently for bottom feeders his whole career.

10%??
Really?

By your logic delta and united were overpaid in the early 2000's, even though they made half of industry standard pre deregulation.

Your "realism" flies in the face of your political beliefs PCL- which is why you are so frustrating to me. The middle class did not happen organically. It happened through free market influences on regulated capitalism and strong unionism.

10% doesn't have us break even with what Swapa pilots were making in 2007.
Were 2007 Swapa pilots more valuable than we are today?

Is that incremental slide acceptable -(slow boiling frog shrinking of the American middle class)- ??

Those are subjective questions, but the actual numbers we need to be working on are NOT. WE HAVE GIVEN IN ON A NUMBER OF VALUABLE ITEMS SO THE COMPANY COULD MEET ITS ROI GOALS. And that's a good thing in line with SWA history. Many generations of SWA pilots have put in effort to receive the reward later-
And so should we.
We will make over a $billion this year-
Each of our side letters represented a numerical value to SWA and should not be free
So that doesn't mean that we all should get $100,000 raises- but 10%??
Yeah, that's been earned and then some
For the actual objective numbers, please see our negotiating committee

 

[General Lee]

Actually, Delta pilots did get a raise. It just wasn't the insane 40% that redclown talks about. SWAPA pilots will be lucky to get COLA raises in this next contract. Something like 1% per year is more likely.

There was about a 5% raise for the DL pilots, but a larger pay increase for the NWA pilots overall. They took a larger pay cut in BK because they traded that to keep their frozen pensions.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Roomwithaview]

The pulse of the membership is a crapshoot. I would venture to guess that to a certain extent you both are right. We have hardcore dudes on one side that will accept nothing less than a 20% bump over the life of the contract. (QUESTION: Where will delta rates be by 2018?)

Then there are plenty of others (more like the majority) that will vote YES on any turd the BOD sends them.

This is why I think it's vital that we educate ourselves on the reality of where we stand in comparison with the rest of the industry. I certainly can't count on swapa to tell me the truth on that one. Their data has clearly been skewed to make it appear as if we're the highest paid across the board. When taken into consideration of total compensation that is far from true.

Additionally, they thought it a good idea to fly more seats for no more pay, no international override, 117, give, give, give, give, give with nothing in return other than a snicker and a wink.

TA 1 got voted down because of a grassroots campaign to kill it. Arguably it was better, or worse. If you consider it worse, it's because your union was so incensed that the membership would dare to go against their YES vote that they had no desire to fight for more. As one NC crowed, "if you don't like TA1 You're really going to hate TA 2"

 

[PCL_128]

This is what has kept PCL working diligently for bottom feeders his whole career.

10%??
Really?

By your logic delta and united were overpaid in the early 2000's, even though they made half of industry standard pre deregulation.

Your "realism" flies in the face of your political beliefs PCL- which is why you are so frustrating to me. The middle class did not happen organically. It happened through free market influences on regulated capitalism and strong unionism.

10% doesn't have us break even with what Swapa pilots were making in 2007.
Were 2007 Swapa pilots more valuable than we are today?

Is that incremental slide acceptable -(slow boiling frog shrinking of the American middle class)- ??

Those are subjective questions, but the actual numbers we need to be working on are NOT. WE HAVE GIVEN IN ON A NUMBER OF VALUABLE ITEMS SO THE COMPANY COULD MEET ITS ROI GOALS. And that's a good thing in line with SWA history. Many generations of SWA pilots have put in effort to receive the reward later-
And so should we.
We will make over a $billion this year-
Each of our side letters represented a numerical value to SWA and should not be free
So that doesn't mean that we all should get $100,000 raises- but 10%??
Yeah, that's been earned and then some
For the actual objective numbers, please see our negotiating committee

You see, Howard? This is what I'm talking about. wavey is exactly the kind of delusional mind you're dealing with over there who thinks that not only is he entitled to a 10% raise, but that it's actually possible.

wavey, you talk of ideology when realism is all that matters. Realistically, what you think you deserve is not achievable. The NMB isn't going to help you get what you want. So the only way for you to get it is to hammer the company (picketing, billboards, newspaper ads, etc.), which you clearly are unwilling to do. So you have no realistic way of achieving what you want. Get real!