AirTran pilots considering switching unions

[Lear70]

15 years would encompass the pay raises that USAirways, UAL, and DAL all achieved in 1999/2000. You know, the ones that gave $200k a year plus for SNB CA's and $300k a year plus for LWB CA's? Those pay raises...? Guess those just slipped your mind.

Those were taken away by bankruptcy courts or the VERY REAL threat of 1113(c) bankruptcy hearings by companies in bankruptcy restructuring. NOT by ALPA.

Keep spinning there, Pinkslip. Maybe someone else will drink YOUR koolaid. So far, you haven't offered any concrete reasons against ALPA, just empty rhetoric with no foundation in fact.

Like everyone else who has come on here ranting against ALPA.

 

[Pinkslip]

15 years would encompass the pay raises that USAirways, UAL, and DAL all achieved in 1999/2000. You know, the ones that gave $200k a year plus for SNB CA's and $300k a year plus for LWB CA's? Those pay raises...? Guess those just slipped your mind.

Those were taken away by bankruptcy courts or the VERY REAL threat of 1113(c) bankruptcy hearings by companies in bankruptcy restructuring. NOT by ALPA.

Keep spinning there, Pinkslip. Maybe someone else will drink YOUR koolaid. So far, you haven't offered any concrete reasons against ALPA, just empty rhetoric with no foundation in fact.

Like everyone else who has come on here ranting against ALPA.

So while they reaped the benefits for 2 years they lost the last 13 years overall. Yeah you are right.....yeah!

ALPA produced 100 seat rates that have been raped by the "Regional" flying. Where was ALPA.

Since you got the time there LEAR. Why don't you take a rolling average of ALPA pilot career wages and see where they have gone. Especially in the past 15 years!

With all that said. ALPA has many positive things in the industry. Safety being one of their forefronts of development. But for Airtran guys......I don't think they are the wisest choice.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Where ever ALPA fails, there is sure to be a crowd of ALPA apologists ready with the excuses.

The pro-ALPA rhetoric is just as "empty" as the anti-ALPA rhetoric in that when it comes down to it: Your contracts, pay, benefits, and job security are no more secure under ALPA than any other Union.

If AirTran can't get their OWN boat rowing in the right direction by themselves, no amount of outside help is going to do it for them.

 

[Lear70]

So while they reaped the benefits for 2 years they lost the last 13 years overall. Yeah you are right.....yeah!

ALPA produced 100 seat rates that have been raped by the "Regional" flying. Where was ALPA.

Since you got the time there LEAR. Why don't you take a rolling average of ALPA pilot career wages and see where they have gone. Especially in the past 15 years!

With all that said. ALPA has many positive things in the industry. Safety being one of their forefronts of development. But for Airtran guys......I don't think they are the wisest choice.

OHHHH, I get it now.

So 9/11 was ALPA's fault, too, eh?

As was the decision of multiple bankruptcy judges in 1113(c) filings, right? They went to those judges and said, "Please, will you decimate our contracts? We'd greatly appreciate it."



Obviously neither of you work here or understand our internal politics and company relationship. If you did, this debate might be worth it to debate the specifics of what has happened here in the last several years.

Otherwise,,, you're just not going to get it unless you've had to live it.

p.s. Who said I had the time for anything? I work 21 days a month these days...

 

[CopilotDoug]

Live...to...fight...another...day...

That did wonders for the career.

Otherwise,,, you're just not going to get it unless you've had to live it.

I can agree to that, Lear.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Degraded pay scales over the past 15 years. Yes.
Degraded the profession over the past 15 years. Yes.
Retirement....enough said!

How about the current transfer of flying from Comair to Mesaba? What did ALPA do? Oh...they're getting Comair pilots preferential hiring with Mesaba.

Memo to Comair Pilots from ALPA: You're Welcome

 

[zman]

So you would rather have a glorified union like ALPA make you feel good about your "Bus driver" type contract so that you feel like a real airline pilot in the world as it was once felt?

Obviously with a statement like that you really have no idea what you are talking about. I have friends of mine who are at different Major airlines, most dont even realize that our work rules are better then theirs.

Facts:

Airtran has a 12 hour dutry day ( Most majors dont)

Airtran is the only airline with its style of reserve policy! (The minute your assigned a trip your guranteed all the rights a privledges of a line holder)

Meaning you could fly 66 hours and get paid for 120 hours almost!

My personal pay checks were higher as a first year guy on reserve then friends and family at Continental Airlines and United Airlines on 2nd year pay! (Yes that personally shocked me as well)

Trust me they were as shocked as I was when we were looking at ADP and they saw how much we were bringing in. Till this day most Airtran pilots as well as other Major airline pilots dont even know about specifics in other airlines contracts. Which is probably why our own industry is so fragmented. When friends and family tell their Captains or First officers about my work rules at Airtran they honestly dont believe them. So back to your Bus driver contract comment I suggest you do a little reading before saying something like that. Also read up on ALPA a little more as well while your at it.

 

[gearup5]

Unfortunatley our union (and most line holders for that matter) say that we have to need to give back our reserve rules. I actually had several guys tell me that reserves just are making to much and that is not right. When I tell them they could bid reserve most of them shut up. Reserve sucks and they should be paid accordingly. We do have a lot of good rules in our contract(ie.reserve,12hr duty day) but we still have alot to work on, especially fo pay.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Live...to...fight...another...day...

That did wonders for the career.

You'd chide your your wife for not fighting the "good fight" if she was raped at knife point...

You have no understanding of how little power unions and labor have in this country.

Provide a critical analysis of PATCO and the APA/45MM fine that nearly put them out of service.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Physical assault is not the best analogy for this scenario.

Switching Unions is reactionary. It is not proactive, progressive, inclusive, collaborative, forward thinking, or win/win.

It just makes the company giddy when they see a disorganized pilot group pulling the plug and trying to hastily reconnect it before the lights go out.

That's how I see it, at least. Why does that sound familiar?