Airtran might sign Mesa!

meanstreak

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Got this off Aviation Daily

1. INTELLIGENCE
AirTran Looking For Regional Partner; In Talks With Mesa

AirTran Airways is reportedly looking for a regional partner and holding preliminary discussions with Mesa Air Group. AirTran could be interested in using Mesa's turboprops on some of its routes. AirTran currently operates 38 Boeing 117-seat 717-200s and 26 108-seat DC-9-32 Stage 3 aircraft. Mesa's turboprop fleet includes 12 36-seat de Havilland Dash 8-200s and 51 19-seat Beech 1900Ds.
 

717driver

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whats Aviation Daily?

I've never heard of Aviation Daily. I did a search on the net using several search engines, but found nothing. Could someone be kind enough to enlighten me?
 

~~~^~~~

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Why not code share with ASA & Comair? We could reduce our Delta block hours flying for Airtran and make ALPA happy!

We could be Val-u-prop. We already have the rest of C Councourse for easy connections.

Our airplanes have longer range, so they could feed us long skinny routes and we could feed them bulk passengers for hub cities. Instead of growing routes for Delta's MD80's, we could grow routes for 717's. I bet the Airtran guys would be pleased as punch to staple us and triple the size of their union. Why not?

Oh, I know why not. Because that would make Airtran more profitable, feed passengers into their system, help their airline grow and compete against Delta. Their union would become more powerful and be stronger in the event of a merger as our industry consolidates.

Somebody remind me again why the Delta pilots and ALPA want us dead...


~~~^~~~
 
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surplus1

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Re: whats Aviation Daily?

717driver said:
I've never heard of Aviation Daily. I did a search on the net using several search engines, but found nothing. Could someone be kind enough to enlighten me?
Aviation Daily is sort of a briefing paper, published daily, that summarizes significant industry events. It's available only by subscription and quite expensive. Published by the same company that publishes Aviation Week & Space Technology. Go to: http://www.aviationnow.com/ and you'll find it there.
 

FlyDeltasJets

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~~~^~~~ said:

Somebody remind me again why the Delta pilots and ALPA want us dead...


~~~^~~~

You seem to be becoming more delusional and melodramatic with every post.
 

Rook

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Well unfortunately i heard this on a LIT overnight.

Delta guys were kind enough to let us share their van and the driver had one more crew to pick up. When we saw the other crew was from Comair...the CA and F/O said "well they want our seniority so we should leave them here." Nothing against the Double-breasted guys but once again its another Mainline vs. commuter trash kind of issue. Sucks but what can ya do?

Rook
600' AGL Autopilot on.
'WHEW!'
 

~~~^~~~

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FlyDeltasJets said:
You seem to be becoming more delusional and melodramatic with every post.
How would you describe activites by your own union designed to limit, or reduce, the number of pilots on your seniority list? Melodramatic maybe, but isn't firing the same as career death? Ask the pilots at US Air Express how they feel about jets for jobs and tell me ALPA is not going to attack our 50 and 70 seat jets at Connection. You give me any source what so ever that tells me ALPA is not trying to reduce the number of "regional" pilots and I will stop being so melodramatic.

ALPA Apartied, One Level of Discrimination, is based on comments from Duane Woerth, like "50 seats are a natural dividing line." Division is the opposite of union. Divisions are based on discriminations.

But you tell me, in a separate thread, if the RJDC's supporters had got what they wanted initially, One List, would you not be better off now? With Delta meeting your MEC on the 26th to introduce code share with other domestic mainline carriers, don't you wish we were standing together to protect Delta flying?

Note to Airtran guys - don't follow the lead of the Delta MEC. Don't let the codeshare genie out of the bottle - those alter ego operations might not be so easy to kill off later. Whoops, did not mean to say kill off, since that is so melodramatic. What I mean is to force them to reduce, or stop, their operations and fire their pilots.
 
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FlyDeltasJets

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~~~^~~~ said:

How would you describe activites by your own union designed to limit, or reduce, the number of pilots on your seniority list?




-------I would describe them as nonexistant.

Ask the pilots at US Air Express how they feel about jets for jobs


------They voted for it.



and tell me ALPA is not going to attack our 50 and 70 seat jets at Connection.


-------Ok...we are not attacking your 50 and 70 seat jets. We attempted to get the 70 seaters, but that was before you had them. There is no such attempts going on now.



You give me any source what so ever that tells me ALPA is not trying to reduce the number of "regional" pilots and I will stop being so melodramatic.



-------I cannot prove a negative.
 

FlyDeltasJets

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Rook said:
Well unfortunately i heard this on a LIT overnight.

Delta guys were kind enough to let us share their van and the driver had one more crew to pick up. When we saw the other crew was from Comair...the CA and F/O said "well they want our seniority so we should leave them here." Nothing against the Double-breasted guys but once again its another Mainline vs. commuter trash kind of issue. Sucks but what can ya do?

Rook
600' AGL Autopilot on.
'WHEW!'


They were wrong. They do not represent the majority of Delta pilots. However, when the rjdc publishes reports that almost a quarter of CMR pilots actively support the lawsuit to bankrupt our union and abrogate our contract, it is hard to blame the Delta guys for painting with a broad brush.

I repeat, however, that they were wrong.
 

~~~^~~~

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FlyDeltasJets said:
How would you describe activites by your own union designed to limit, or reduce, the number of pilots on your seniority list?
-------I would describe them as nonexistant.
Fact (1) ALPA sued Delta to stop Comair's operation of Delta Shuttle and lost. (2) ALPA filed a scope ratio grievance, then withdrew it when it was apparent that the arbitrator was going to apply Force Majure in the short term.
FlyDeltasJets said:
Ask the pilots at US Air Express how they feel about jets for jobs------They voted for it.
Fact, two pilot groups voted for it after they were told they would be fired without it. As is they will now get furlough rights. The other pilot groups have organized to bring a DFR suit against ALPA and have picketed National's offices.
FlyDeltasJets said:
and tell me ALPA is not going to attack our 50 and 70 seat jets at Connection. -------Ok...we are not attacking your 50 and 70 seat jets. We attempted to get the 70 seaters, but that was before you had them. There is no such attempts going on now.
One result of the RJDC litigation is that the Delta MEC is much more reserved about their public statements. If ALPA intends no harm to Connection pilots, why are we still locked out of meetings and negotiations with DAL? Now your MEC's VARS messages are a little harder to pinpoint, just statements that ALPA's economists are watching the Company's performance and now believe the scope ratio portion of the contract can be enforced.
FlyDeltasJets said:
You give me any source what so ever that tells me ALPA is not trying to reduce the number of "regional" pilots and I will stop being so melodramatic.-------I cannot prove a negative.
But I can sure prove a positive. I will change my icon to ALPA's stop RJ tags they have distributed, if the file size is right.
 

FL000

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QUICK...SQUAWK 7500! Another thread has been hijacked!!
 

~~~^~~~

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FL000 said:
QUICK...SQUAWK 7500! Another thread has been hijacked!!
Sorry
 

FlyDeltasJets

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~~~^~~~ said:
Fact (1) ALPA sued Delta to stop Comair's operation of Delta Shuttle and lost.

Yeah, we shouldn't be allowed to prevent our flying. Besides, even had we won that grienance, you would not have lost a single pilot. Let's face it, you are growing like a weed.


(2) ALPA filed a scope ratio grievance, then withdrew it when it was apparent that the arbitrator was going to apply Force Majure in the short term.



------Your fact is incorrect (and therefore not a fact). The scope grievance was dropped because of the 3rd consecutive quarter of losses at DAL eliminated any scope limit.





Fact, two pilot groups voted for it after they were told they would be fired without it. As is they will now get furlough rights. The other pilot groups have organized to bring a DFR suit against ALPA and have picketed National's offices.



--------Seperate issue than the rjdc, and I am not learned enough to offer much comment on it. However, I will ask if you believe that the U pilots should have just allowed mgt to give all of their flying away without negotiating some protections for their members? After all, it is their flying (contractually). Also, wouldn't ALPA have violated their DFR if they did not allow U pilots to negotiate protections for thier pilots?

--------Furthermore, didn't j4j in fact create waayyyy more regional jobs? I don't necessarily agree with it, but it kind of refutes your point that ALPA is trying to kill rjs.



One result of the RJDC litigation is that the Delta MEC is much more reserved about their public statements. If ALPA intends no harm to Connection pilots, why are we still locked out of meetings and negotiations with DAL?


------BECAUSE IT IS OUR FLYING. We don't let the airtran pilots in either. Or the ACA or Skywest pilots. You have no right to be in our negotiations. If you disagree, please post the language that gives you control over even a single hour of Delta flying.



Now your MEC's VARS messages are a little harder to pinpoint, just statements that ALPA's economists are watching the Company's performance and now believe the scope ratio portion of the contract can be enforced.


-------You should listen a little bit closer to those messages. You have obviously heard them wrong. There is no longer any scope ratio, and therefore nothing to be enforced. We are going to "meet and confer" to set new limits, and DALPA has NEVER made any public statement indicating that they will seek to shrink DCI block hours. Yet you continue to assert otherwise.



But I can sure prove a positive. I will change my icon to ALPA's stop RJ tags they have distributed, if the file size is right.

--------Those were printed up by the HP MEC using the same funds that you were afforded during your contract negotiations. You could use those funds to print up any tags you want, and they would not convince me of ALPA's policies. ALPA and DALPA has never attempted to limit rjs. I cannot speak for the pilots of HP.

You will have to come up with a little more than a bag tag to convince me.
 

MetroSheriff

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FL000 said:
QUICK...SQUAWK 7500! Another thread has been hijacked!!

ROFLMAO....good one FL000!!!:D
 

~~~^~~~

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FlyDeltasJets said:
You will have to come up with a little more than a bag tag to convince me.
I'm not worried, I am confident your MEC will do that for me. And as ALPA has argued in Court countless times, they are the exclusive bargaining agent. No unit negotiates without the approval and power of ALPA's exclusive status. An example of this is ALPA's refusal to sign the CC Air contract which has forced that company to stop operations and fire their pilots effective at then end of October.

So which is it? Is ALPA National the exclusive agent with the power to refuse the execution of contracts, or does each MEC act independently? ALPA's position is that they are exclusive, meaning the actions of any MEC must first be cleared with ALPA and become ALPA's position. According to ALPA's legal arguements - that is their Bag Tag, and their position. I'm just using it because it is a cute, clear, slogan. When I post Woerth quotes to the same effect, everyone goes to sleep.
 

FlyDeltasJets

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Actually, I LOVE the bag tag, with one small exception. I would erase the slash around "rj's" and add the words "on mainline" after it.


That being said, I apologize to the others for responding to fins' dig and helping to "hijack" the thread. I have to do a better job of letting people have the last word!
 

surplus1

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FlyDeltasJets said:
That being said, I apologize to the others for responding to fins' dig and helping to "hijack" the thread. I have to do a better job of letting people have the last word!
In defense of Fins, there are only two kinds of people on here that don't want to hear about the problems between mainline and major: 1) the mainline pilots that caused the problem; 2) inexperienced people who know little about the industry (as evidenced by their remarks). Sometimes 1 & 2 are identical.
 

FL000

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surplus1 said:


In defense of Fins, there are only two kinds of people on here that don't want to hear about the problems between mainline and major: 1) the mainline pilots that caused the problem; 2) inexperienced people who know little about the industry (as evidenced by their remarks). Sometimes 1 & 2 are identical.
In defense of myself, just because I'm relatively new to the field doesn't mean I'm an ignorant hick. I keep up with the goings-on in the industry and am well aware of the political aspects therein.

It is an ongoing theme with the RJDC crowd that if you don't agree with them, well, you must just be plain dumb or uninformed. That's not a particularly good way to ingratiate yourself to potential supporters, and your assessment of that particular group of people couldn't be more ignorant in its own right.
 

NYRANGERS

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Yea, so anyway whats up with Mesa flying for Airtran?
 

surplus1

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FL000,

I'm curious as to what made you decide that my comments were directed at you?

Looks like you decided that the shoes you wear fall into one of the two categories.

For the record, I don't seek to ingratiate myself with anyone. I have no need to do so and I don't fall into the mainline wannabe category. As for the RJDC, it's not a popularity contest. It's a quest for compliance with the law. If you choose to have your rights trampled on by others while you remain silent, that's your perogative. I don't choose that route and make no apologies.

The problems need to be solved. If mainline pilots don't want to solve them or insist on having everything their way, then the courts will decide. My regard for their beliefs is indentical to their regard for mine.

You are more than welcome to disagree with me at any time. After all, "variety is the spice of life".
 
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