AirTran hiring?

[Ty Webb]

Where to start with this rube . . . .

How about

"Shut the f@ck up, Donny".

Go back to your 1900, putz.

 

[Flying-Corporal]

Don't believe all the negative stuff you hear here. My buddy is there, he is pretty happy, flies a lot, company making $$$, etc. I wish I'd done that. There is nothing worse than looking for a flying job in this economy ...

You guys that are on the airline #5+, go a do sth else in life. Get an MBA or an IT degree, make more money, be happy. Why make everyone else miserable in the cockpit and on this board??

 

[funnyman12]

Well I'm very happy for my life and everything I have. I'm sorry if some people out there focus on what they don't have rather than what they have. Have fun being angry and upset and I will gladly take your seniority# when you chase an "awesome" airline! I have has 4 jobs my whole life since high school. Ice cream store, CFI, Colgan, and here. Colgan sux.....true, but my buddies whom chased those shiny jets have never upgraded. Awww I feel sad that they couldn't stick it out at Colgan for 2 years.....

 

[Captzaahlie]

Don't be stupid Junior. This place really sux, worse than unemployment...I know having been there many times.

BTW, for every couple of "great people" you'll fly with, enjoy the scabs. True, not too many flyin the line, but most the mangmt pilots.

The environment is at this $hit hole airline is worse than you could imagine...will have you hatin your career choice.

Why dont you just kill yourself then....

 

[Lear70]

There's *SOME* truth to what you're saying Funnyman, but not everyone had it so well.

Many of us came up in the mid-90's where flying jobs were few and far in between and didn't get to go straight from instructing into an RJ job... it took 1,500 - 2,000 hours or so just to get an INTERVIEW at a regional back then, so most of us went into charter in the interim unless we PFT'd (which many of us refused to do). We also remember what it was like from our parents in the 70's - 90's when airline jobs were still one of THE BEST careers to go into. There were doctors and attorneys who left their fields to come to OURS. When's the last time you heard of that happening in the last 5 years?

I enjoyed my flying at AirTran and thought I'd made a great decision... right up to the Christmas debacle of 2006 when management suddenly started yanking quality of life and wilfully violating the CBA. It's pretty much sucked since then for everyone except the super-senior and the people who still cut their side deals with the company to get favorable treatment back, which undercuts the whole collective bargaining process. People like that are part of the problem, not the solution.

I still think this place *COULD* be a great place to work, *IF* management stopped with the hostility, bargained in good faith, gave us a CBA worthy of a CAREER airline, then HONORED their agreement and didn't reinterpret that once it's ratified.

The ball is really in their court. Until then, yes, I believe several other airlines would be better places to hang your hat for a career. I also believe the majority of our pilots would agree. YMMV

 

[MILPILOT17]

Don't believe all the negative stuff you hear here. My buddy is there, he is pretty happy, flies a lot, company making $$$, etc. I wish I'd done that. There is nothing worse than looking for a flying job in this economy ...

You guys that are on the airline #5+, go a do sth else in life. Get an MBA or an IT degree, make more money, be happy. Why make everyone else miserable in the cockpit and on this board??

All the Airtran folks I've met are a Class Act! Thanks for the rides and keep up the good fight! Best of luck.

 

[freightdogfred]

Your on airline 5, I don't thnk you should be Giving advise to anybody. Now or a decade from now.

With spelling and grammar like that, I don't think you should be giving advice either.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Wow that's it.

 

[Adiabatic Pilot]

Translated-a 1900 is '& others'.

 

[funnyman12]

In Dec 2003 Colgan would not interview me, they wanted 2000 total and 500 multi...By June of '04 I received an interview with 1700 total and 300 multi. Shortly after that all the regionals dropped their mins substantialy. I agree with you Lear, but I caution us FI guys on getting caught up in our emotions. I often wonder if we (us at Airtran in Aug '07) could have not recalled our Pres/VP and negotiated a TA4...what we could have had. Instead we all got very emotionally involved and recalled the Pres and VP. Sometimes I wonder if we (pilots) got too emotional and irrational and it ended up hurting us. We have been the longest (maybe 2nd) airline to have a TA voted down and still not have a contract in airline history. It just rattles me the wrong way when we let management make us irrational. Eg.....Many pilots here still think TA2 had a 13 hr duty day, average day, and many other things. It did not have these even tho I thought it was unacceptable. Point being is that many pilots refuse/are lazy and do not educate themselves on the details of a TA. I was only here 7 months and read the entire TA and made an educated decision myself. FI and even our forum is a bit biased. Most Captains I fly with think im a union guy, but most FI/forum frequent posters make comments as if I'm a company guy. I think that it is the responsibility of or educated pilots that are active on forums to be individuals that galvanize the pilot group. Sometimes I think it works to the contrary. I, for one, am a person much more on the pilots side. At the same time, the seemingly militant folks are as ridiculous as the crazy company pilots. My motto on life....shoot for the stars and keep your feet on the ground....the company a'holes shoot for their feet and the hard core union guys shoot for the red giant Beeteljuice ( a huge star far far away). Lets all unite for a common goal rather than the extremes. We should trust or negotiating team to set the standards. We should vote on what we think is fair. Baaahh I have been drinkin'~!! At LEAST 15yr CA = 174/hr, 15 yr FO = 116/hr, 3 year Ca $140/hr, 3 yr Fo $83/hr(Fo's 67% CA), scope as is or better(bind the holding company), improved language(especially scheduling), at least 5hrs sick/month, improved health benefits, and a reserve with a guarantee of at least 75hrs, at least 12/13 days off, ability to drop/swap, and complete transparency. Hopefully I see something similar. Some may differ on what they want but I think for an avg 127/seats this minimum is fair....good night Im surprised I can type! =)

 

[airlinepilot]

When the new rules (pilot rest/duty, etc) hit the street.....there is going to be alot of hiriing by all the air lines.

 

[Britpilot]

Everything goes in cycles you will still be a bottom feeder when the economy turns. You probably didn't get hired at one of those three back in 2000 and settled with value jet.

Still can't spell ValuJet can you? Must be some sort of brain condition, see a doctor.

 

[Lear70]

I often wonder if we (us at Airtran in Aug '07) could have not recalled our Pres/VP and negotiated a TA4...what we could have had.

I can tell you that Philpot was SO out of touch with reality in terms of what this pilot group had to have to pass a T.A., as was management, that there's no way we would have been brought anything acceptable.

I was there. At the negotiating table. Fighting BOTH sides of the table. Our own NC who thought T.A. 2 was great, and our own management who had no interest in listening to "one radical guy". Suffice it to say, it later became obvious that I *WASN'T* so radical, when 70% of our pilot group agreed on the same principles and voted it down.

So no, keeping those guys in office would have brought us nothing more than a few "tweaks" until they got 50% + 1. Like I said then: current book is better than that document - there was simply too much to fix , and starting over again was a much better way to go. Especially now with the company poised to post record profits for the next 2 years, while we will be in a position to take a strike vote within a year's time and force this to the end game.

It just rattles me the wrong way when we let management make us irrational. Eg.....Many pilots here still think TA2 had a 13 hr duty day, average day, and many other things. It did not have these even tho I thought it was unacceptable.

Those two items were in Section 5.A.4 of the proposed T.A.

Basically, it said that the company and the Scheduling Committee (the same guys who brought you the complete lack of transparency, the terrible reserve system changes, along with the loss of our current reserve system pay and no required use of long-call reserve) will start a parallel line creation process that DOES use 13 hour duty days and 4.5 hour average days to analyze how lines would change under those rules. At the end of that experiment, if the NPA agreed to make the change, those rules DID become part of our contract. PERMANENTLY.

The problem with that is that any scheduling department at any company can make anything look good for a few months, then find ways to "optimize" it and create not-so-attractive lines when they want to optimize crew usage, even if it destroys the QOL they showed during the parallel bidding process. We're seeing that difficult kind of QOL now as the company tries to finish the summer without hiring and the days off are low, trips are often uncommutable, and many pilots are flying lines nothing like their original bids.

What was needed in that section was a quarterly review, IN PERPETUITY, that allowed the union to force the company to go back to the old system, thus providing oversight. I proposed just such a measure in D.C. The company said that wasn't "realistically possible". So yes, it WAS in the T.A. I still have the base document and supporting negotiating committee notes if you'd like to read them.

We should trust or negotiating team to set the standards.

I do... now... I also subscribe to the age-old adage: trust but verify. Meaning that when the new Scheduling Committee brings us a new Section 5 in a new T.A., I'm going to analyze it JUST as thoroughly as I did last time, and I'm going to publish the results, just like I did last time.

We should vote on what we think is fair. Baaahh I have been drinkin'~!!

Why should those two go together? You can drink, it's a free country, but we should always strive for fair. I've been saying that since day 1 at the table, and it pi$$ed everyone off at the table. Our opinions on "fair", however, vastly differ from pilot to pilot.

At LEAST 15yr CA = 174/hr, 15 yr FO = 116/hr, 3 year Ca $140/hr, 3 yr Fo $83/hr(Fo's 67% CA), scope as is or better(bind the holding company), improved language(especially scheduling), at least 5hrs sick/month, improved health benefits, and a reserve with a guarantee of at least 75hrs, at least 12/13 days off, ability to drop/swap, and complete transparency. Hopefully I see something similar. Some may differ on what they want but I think for an avg 127/seats this minimum is fair....good night Im surprised I can type! =)

That all certainly sounds like reasonable demands, although pay "reasonability" is going to differ from pilot to pilot. You do need to add Merger and Acquisition language in there binding the holding company in this day and age of mergers and spinoffs/sales, partial company sales, etc, and a couple other items settling some grievances on reinterpretations of our current contract, but altogether, I don't think we're far off.

What we need to remember is that management has NO intentions of giving us this without a fight. They've proven it repeatedly over the last 3 years, taking hostages in the process just to try to beat the pilot group into submission again. The question is, how far are you willing to take this? If the answer isn't "all the way, if necessary", then that wish list becomes a "drunken dreamers list".

Are you ready? Do you have a strike fund? Are you saving up for it?