AirTran Gate Mgt.???

[Lowrider717]

Who's the Genius at AirTran that came up with the idea to put an aircraft in HOLDING because you wouldn't have a gate open when it arrived?

 

[CA1900]

The one who's pissed at his fellow pilots being fired while the scabs keep their jobs, I'd imagine.

 

[Lowrider717]

No, no. This would be some genius in Operations Control who decided its better to turn circles burning 4000-5000 lbs/hr than sit on the ground awaiting a gate burning 350 lbs/hr.

Somebody get the tar, I'll bring the feathers, its time to party!

 

[Citrus531]

In ATL, we try to implement self-imposed groundstops in certain outstations on IROP days so we don't have the whole fleet hitting us at once. The ATLCC will call SOC to set up certain flights to be held.

A guy in SAV or BWI or PNS for example will pick up the phone and say "Oh, Atlanta's having overflow? Ok, we'll hold it a few extra min". And then somehow that plane pushes 10-15 early and gets to ATL to wait 45 min-1hr. In-range freq on bad nights is interesting to say the least. We try but others seem to wanta do their own thing sometimes....

265 daily flights with 27 full-time AirTran gates in hotlanta...the frustration never ends. TBI(airport mgmt) isn't helpful to us either.

 

[cksport]

Who's the Genius at AirTran that came up with the idea to put an aircraft in HOLDING because you wouldn't have a gate open when it arrived?

Please say it isn't so.....self-imposed airborne holding due to lack of gate space. Unfathomable! I've heard of company induced ground-stops, but that applies to traffic not yet airborne. I agree with others in this post, the far better option is to land airborne aircraft and have ground control park em in a remote area until the gate becomes available. They could shut down the mains and just run the APU to conserve even more fuel than needless circles over a fix. Where's the logic? Certainly those exercising operational control (PIC and dispatcher) are overriding this senseless idea.

 

[Lowrider717]

Please say it isn't so.....self-imposed airborne holding due to lack of gate space. Unfathomable!... Where's the logic?... Certainly those exercising operational control (PIC and dispatcher) are overriding this senseless idea.

It is so, has been confirmed, and it seems to be standard practice here. But we(TRS) have the "best Mgt. team in the industry", right? Gimme a break, what exactly are they managing other than their egos?

Sure, I can see delaying the flight from leaving the gate or getting off the ground, but telling ATC told hold a plane over ODF because we don't have a gate available. Yup, that really gives us Pilots warm fuzzies about our Management.

 

[cksport]

It is so, has been confirmed, and it seems to be standard practice here. But we(TRS) have the "best Mgt. team in the industry", right? Gimme a break, what exactly are they managing other than their egos?

Sure, I can see delaying the flight from leaving the gate or getting off the ground, but telling ATC told hold a plane over ODF because we don't have a gate available. Yup, that really gives us Pilots warm fuzzies about our Management.

Whatever happened to operational control being exercised by the PIC and the dispatcher. I've never heard of such practice, but it seems that is how management is circumventing operational control by getting ATC to play along. That is another surprise to me as well. If I were ATC, I would tell them that my duty is to keep em separated and land em safely....I'll let em sit on the tarmac, but not congest my airspace. Does the pilot group at TRS have an ASAP program? If not, does dispatch?

 

[ron burgundy]

In ATL, we try to implement self-imposed groundstops in certain outstations on IROP days so we don't have the whole fleet hitting us at once. The ATLCC will call SOC to set up certain flights to be held.

A guy in SAV or BWI or PNS for example will pick up the phone and say "Oh, Atlanta's having overflow? Ok, we'll hold it a few extra min". And then somehow that plane pushes 10-15 early and gets to ATL to wait 45 min-1hr. In-range freq on bad nights is interesting to say the least. We try but others seem to wanta do their own thing sometimes....

265 daily flights with 27 full-time AirTran gates in hotlanta...the frustration never ends. TBI(airport mgmt) isn't helpful to us either.

Once again..no communication!! If is that big of a deal , have dipatch put a note on our paperwork of when/why we are to push at a certain time,update ftweb and let the gate ahent know..call the gate at said airport and let the agent know not to release the flight....How friggin hard is that?

 

[Citrus531]

Once again..no communication!! If is that big of a deal , have dipatch put a note on our paperwork of when/why we are to push at a certain time,update ftweb and let the gate ahent know..call the gate at said airport and let the agent know not to release the flight....How friggin hard is that?

Not hard at all...We do those things in addition to the 800 other situations we're trying to handle each day...my post said we call SOC and then they communicate with the outstation in question. I've called oustations before asking why they pushed the plane when we told them not to and the answer normally is "well the crew said they wanted to push anyways so we did".

Part of SOC's job is flowing times on ftweb, just like we flow the 230 flight times in Atlanta everyday...doesn't solve much nor do some people(agents, crews, ramp) care what it says....then everyone's shocked when gates are occupied b/c you're 30 mins early...

Communication is there...rather the information given is absorbed or not is another story.

 

[Spud]

Not hard at all...We do those things in addition to the 800 other situations we're trying to handle each day...my post said we call SOC and then they communicate with the outstation in question. I've called oustations before asking why they pushed the plane when we told them not to and the answer normally is "well the crew said they wanted to push anyways so we did".

Part of SOC's job is flowing times on ftweb, just like we flow the 230 flight times in Atlanta everyday...doesn't solve much nor do some people(agents, crews, ramp) care what it says....then everyone's shocked when gates are occupied b/c you're 30 mins early...

Communication is there...rather the information given is absorbed or not is another story.

What does any of this have to do with holding in the air vs. holding out for the gate on the ground?

 

[Citrus531]

What does any of this have to do with holding in the air vs. holding out for the gate on the ground?

It has nothing to do with holding in the air which the 1st post was about....which i think is dumb too.

It has everything to do with the previous post about communication. I was pointing out that the communication is there with regards to holding on the ground and the thought that goes into making ground holds minimal.

Come on up to D-twr during an irop night in Atl about 8 pm and I'll show ya what I'm talking about