AirTran DRC - judgement !

[StopNTSing]

Re: paycuts or not, how about we ALL just STFU and start the discussion again come Jan 2016 when all the fATN pilots have had at least a year on the SWA side? At least then we'll all have REAL numbers to work with.

 

[RLAblows]

Re: paycuts or not, how about we ALL just STFU and start the discussion again come Jan 2016 when all the fATN pilots have had at least a year on the SWA side? At least then we'll all have REAL numbers to work with.

What makes you so certain that all pilots will be over by January 2015?

 

[Tripower455]

"Where did these magical upgrades come from?"............

Great question. Can you answer it? How in the world, in a period of absolutely no growth, could SWA justify upgrading 300+ Captains this year and over 500 for next year? Where did that magical 800 number appear? You got it cupcake.... the great seat grab from the senior Captains at Airtran. The lock out of the left seat until 2015 was the only way that SWAPA could steal the seats from the FAT Captains that were in the top half of the new combined seniority list. The 2004 RSW hires that are the new Captains will be on reserve for years to come (5-8 minimum). As they tire of the reserve rules they will bid back to the right seat and then the FAT FO's in the top half will move into the vacancies created. With the "flattish" growth in the future the seniority will adjust to the a true picture of what the the integrated list should have looked like without the seat grab. That is where your 800 upgrades is coming from. That is the reality. Stop living in your purple haze.

Steal?

84% of your group voted for this deal, which included giving up those seats. This was AFTER you turned down an offer that kept them, and would've gotten you SW pay and a ton of other stuff beneficial to the AT guys.

 

[humveedriver]

Unkle!!! Ok, all AT pilots are gonna lose 40k per year and will have to commute to reserve in OAK forever. All SWA pilots will get a quick upgrade from the seats that were stolen from AT cappys. GK, SWAPA, and all it's pilots conspired and duped the AT pilots to concede everything that they had at their worldclass top tier airline. Heck, they even paid off the arbitrator and the trannies were denied justice once again. They never had one say in his whole deal. That just sucks!!

You forgot we have to pay for parking now too

 

[Ty Webb]

Steal?

84% of your group voted for this deal, which included giving up those seats. This was AFTER you turned down an offer that kept them, and would've gotten you SW pay and a ton of other stuff beneficial to the AT guys.

I wonder what concessions GK could have gotten 84% of your pilots to make, if he had threatened your jobs?

We may find out some day, unfortunately.

 

[Tripower455]

I wonder what concessions GK could have gotten 84% of your pilots to make, if he had threatened your jobs?

We may find out some day, unfortunately.

It doesn't change the fact that 84% of your guys gave away those seats. SW pilots didn't "steal" them.

BTW, I'd love to see some actual proof that GK threatened you guys. Every time it's been asked for, nobody can seem to find a copy.

I'd place my bets on ALPA using the (possibly implied) "threat" as a way to cover it's mistake in not letting you guys vote on the first one.

 

[Ty Webb]

BTW, I'd love to see some actual proof that GK threatened you guys. Every time it's been asked for, nobody can seem to find a copy.
.

Apparently, you haven't read the Ruling from the DRC.

After the testimony from both sides, The Arbitrator found:

" . . . The Company further threatened to go to what was described as 'Plan B' if ALPA did not agree to Southwest Airlines 'take it or leave it' offer. Testimony

presented at the hearing indicates that the 'Plan B' that was spoken of was that

AirTran would be operated separately from Southwest Airlines following the

merger and would not be integrated in to Southwest Airlines in the future.

The implementation of this 'Plan B' was that eventually the AirTran side

of the Company would be allowed to 'die' and then the Southwest Airlines side

of the business would absorb those parts of AirTran that it wanted, such as

the valuable DC/La Guardia NYC slots and gates and AirTran's international

destinations such as Mexico and the Caribbean.

 

[Dan Roman]

BTW, I'd love to see some actual proof that GK threatened you guys. Every time it's been asked for, nobody can seem to find a copy.
.

Well this could be a game changer. Are you saying that the AirTran pilots were NOT told that if they didn't accept door number 2 they would not be merged into SWA?

 

[Tripower455]

Apparently, you haven't read the Ruling from the DRC. The Arbitrator wrote:

"During negotiations, the Company withdrew numerous benefits, which

had been on offered for AirTran pilots and threatened to take punitive measures

against AirTran pilots in the event that an SLI Agreement was not reached.

In particular the Company withdrew the Southwest Airlines rates of pay as of

January 1, 2013, and said that Southwest Airlines rates of pay would only kick in

on April 15, 2015 (although this was later brought back to January 1, 2015).

The Company further threatened to go to what was described as ?Plan B?

if ALPA did not agree to Southwest Airlines? ?take it or leave it? offer. Testimony

presented at the hearing indicates that the ?Plan B? that was spoken of was that

AirTran would be operated separately from Southwest Airlines following the

merger and would not be integrated in to Southwest Airlines in the future.

The implementation of this ?Plan B? was that eventually the AirTran side

of the Company would be allowed to ?die? and then the Southwest Airlines side

of the business would absorb those parts of AirTran that it wanted, such as

the valuable DC/La Guardia NYC slots and gates and AirTran?s international

destinations such as Mexico and the Caribbean.

I did not read the DRC resolution.

My bad.

Who said this, was it ALPA, GK or SWApA?

FWIW, How do you think it would've worked out had you guys been able to vote on the first offer?

 

[Tripower455]

Well this could be a game changer. Are you saying that the AirTran pilots were NOT told that if they didn't accept door number 2 they would not be merged into SWA?

I don't know. I am saying that I have not seen any proof of this threat.

The AT guys claim that a threat was made, but have offered no verifiable proof of such. The above quote is, as far as I can tell, someone's personal testimony at the DRC hearing.

I wouldn't put it past ALPA to embellish or even fabricate this "threat" in order to save face after rejecting the first offer without a membership vote.

Of course I could be wrong, and if so, welcome proof.