AirTran cuts some more

[gt1900]

BSkin.... Where is Delta getting 717's from? And since when did the sim operators know anything? .........Hey, my dad was up at Boeing the other day and talked to a secretary who said AAI is getting 787's... So, it must be so. My god, you guys would take the word of the hooker down the road from Alteon.. Delta isn't going to get any 717's. They aren't going to bring a new A/C online when they can only get a couple of them. I doesn't make any financial sense. My god, if they were going to get some they would have gottne MEH's old birds. There just isn't enough available. Now, if you said they were going to get a bunch of big ERJ's like JB, then I might believe it. But they aren't getting 717's...

 

[maxblast72]

Common Max.... Tell me your smarter then that. AAI was in no way anywhere close to filing for bankruptcy. At least not in 2008. Heck, even with the earnings estimates that were being thrown out in mid summer AAI could operate well into 2009 before filling bankruptcy with the 500 million cash they have on hand (or the cash they can get). Tell me you have better business sense then that.....

I never thought we were that close to bankruptcy. But at the August domicile meeting in the Atrium conference center, Mike Best said that in early July, before we had renegotiated our credit card agreements, we were very close to a filing had the credit card companies demanded more holdback. I remember Fornaro saying at the May townhall meeting that holdback issues could tie up to $150-200 million of our cash assets. You file bankruptcy long before you get to zero cash.

Anyhow, don't shoot the messenger, if you think Mike is an idiot, tell him that. Personally, I think Mike is very sharp with numbers and watches what is going on in the rest of the industry very closely.

Good news is the spot price of Jet A has dropped from over $4 in July to around $2.50 now which gives our balance sheet a nice shot in the arm ($40-45 million/month when consuming around 30 million gallons a month).

 

[maxblast72]

BTW, it now sounds like there will only be displacements and not furloughs. Could it be that CAs refusing to fly right seat might have actually SAVED 35 guys from furlough?

While I think Captains not flying in the right seat could have saved 5 or 10 First Officer jobs, there must be more to the no furloughs like increased utilization of our remaining 717s or acquiring some of Midwest's parked 717s.

Your are not going to convince me that we were 2000-2500 hrs understaffed in the right seat (equivalent of 35 pilots) with the operational performance numbers Airtran put up for September and October.

It looks like the 717 is going to pick up the slack for the 737 once again.

 

[gt1900]

Max... I don't think MB is dumb... Hes very very smart. However, I don't think the credit card company's were going to give us hold back. It didn't work when they did it to F9.... AAI was in a totally different financial position then F9. Yes, they had to renegotiate, but I don't think AAI was close to to filing bankruptcy........ BTW.... Im not trying to kill the messanger...

 

[maxblast72]

I agree that AAI was in a totally different financial and competitive position than F9. We had only been losing money for a quarter or two versus F9's several years. Also, we didn't have a LCC invading our main hub that was paying $2/gallon less for Jet A.

I don't understand how you say the credit card holdback didn't work at F9. The credit card companies are holding money back from F9 because they don't want to get hung out to dry if F9 goes into liquidation. If in the future F9 financial strength increases, the credit card companies can just reduce their holdback percentages.

Good news for us is that we have a new credit card processing agreement through 2009, $150 million of new cash in the bank, and the $150 million line of credit lined up. Also, the lowering of Fuel CASM around the industry will help Airtran the most since our main advantage is in the non-fuel CASM.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I don't understand how you say the credit card holdback didn't work at F9. The credit card companies are holding money back from F9 because they don't want to get hung out to dry if F9 goes into liquidation. If in the future F9 financial strength increases, the credit card companies can just reduce their holdback percentages.

.

That is why they went into bankruptcy, to prevent the credit card company from imposing new rules on them. I would bet the agreement the credit card company was able to negotiate with the bankruptcy judge was nowhere near as harsh as the one they were trying to impose.

 

[maxblast72]

Don't the credit card companies have the ability to hand over the money for tickets bought with their credit cards when they feel it is safe to do so? When credit card companies feel your airline is safe, they hand over the money from sales quickly. When credit card companies feel your airline is risky, they start holding a percentage back until the airline actually flies the person (delivers the goods).

Wasn't the F9 bankruptcy a way to protect their current cash before their cash flow was greatly impacted by a higher holdback percentage by the credit card companies? Can a bankruptcy judge tell the credit card companies (non bankrupt companies) how they are going to run their business? Credit card companies are going to do what they need to do to protect their business. It is the airline's job to negotiate a new deal, accept the new holdback percentage and plan around it, or not use credit cards for ticket sales.

 

[JT12345]

Management is doom and gloom to get a contract before the next election.

If it goes democratic the cronies appointed to the National Mediation Board will be labor friendly, and so will these so called "judges" that decide bankruptcy/labor issues.

 

[AppBrookie]

We were just told in class today from a retired guy(instructor) that it is all the captains fault at Airtran for not flying in the right seat. Then proceeded to spew scab retoric for the next 40 minutes.

90% of the AirTran Guys are super individuals to work with and I hope you guys prosper, but I do not miss the scab mentality/Chicken Littles. Life is too short, Glad I moved on.
Stay Strong!!!!!

 

[Sunking]

I call BS. I just had my "Displacement CA" checkride and heard none of this stuff from anyone in the training center the entire time I was there.

If it DID happen, then I hope you verbally shot him in the face. If not, grow some stones.

BTW, it now sounds like there will only be displacements and not furloughs. Could it be that CAs refusing to fly right seat might have actually SAVED 35 guys from furlough?

The 11 in 717 capt. transitions will call your B.S and raise you one. I Sheet you not !