Airtran charging for jumpseating

[FL717]

Once again....

Anyone have an IDEA how to get your $25 refunded, if you did not get on an Airtran airplane?

Thanks for the other times I did get on Airtran guys!

thanks,
Extra 300S

I notice most people have come to just ignore you which I probably will start after this post. I will address you only once.. because you really don't deserve the attention so enjoy the only time you and I will converse on this.

Let me get this straight... you show up too late for the free jumpseat.. then decide to pay the $25.00 non rev fee to get on THAT flight, then change you mind, walk clear across a terminal to catch a different flight on another airline, then you remember that you want your $25.00 back, and come on this anonymous forum and b!tch about how to get your refund?!

First off.. if what you say is 100% true - you are an idiot and shouldn't be in public unsupervised.

Second.. after reviewing past posts you have made on this message board - you are usually full of sh!t, so why should that be any different this time.

Third.. please.. just go away. You have no credibility. You're not even funny. At least some flamers are somewhat humorous.

Good bye.

 

[Extra300S]

Nice reply 717


I asked a simple question as it has come up several times during Jumpseat meetings with our pilot group. I have never rode the jumpseat except last week and found the first leg to be a non-event, however connecting throught ATL I offered to pay the $25 so a Southwest guy could get to work, I was actually first, the plane went out full, he did get on, I did not. I ended up walking down the concourse to ASA and caught a ride with them.

I did not get a chance to refund the little paper ticket form. I am a former Jumpseat Chairman for a Major Airline, I will note your attitude as a snot nosed kid who probably paid 10K for his Valuejet job. I hope you do not represent the Airtran pilot group in any way shape of form. I will be forwarding your comments to the Airtran JSC Chairman.

My hats off to ASA who provided a ride for a United guy in need!

Sorry United turned you down B717, I can see why.

UAL A-320 F/O

 

[e120pilot]

"Sorry United turned you down B717, I can see why."

Spoken like a true United pilot

 

[FL717]

After reading the following post, I will respond as follows:

I asked a simple question as it has come up several times during Jumpseat meetings with our pilot group.

Then you should ask that question at your supposed "jumpseat" meeting.

I am a former Jumpseat Chairman for a Major Airline,

Then you should know the route to get your question answered, and realize the sensitivity of posing your "question" on this forum.

I will be forwarding your comments to the Airtran JSC Chairman.

Which is where you should have directed your comments in the first place. See my additional comments below.

Sorry United turned you down B717, I can see why.
UAL A-320 F/O

Finally.. you can name call, make up stories about me..(i.e. I never worked at Valuejet.. i.e. I never applied let alone interviewed at UAL). You feel free to forward my comments to my J/S Coordinator.. I know him well. I stand by my comments. You are an idiot!

 

[ScRaMJeT]

Don't let them bother ya

FL717, Don't let them bother you. They are just trying to get under your skin because they know you love your airline. Airtran is a great airline, even though its hard to get an interview there.

flybrowntails is just expressing his anger because he spends sleepless days away from home, and long nights, dozing off in his 727. As a matter fact I heard him say, he hates his schedule because quote "I've been fighting sleep for months in addition i've been doomed to boredom at this place".

Extra300S he is just mad because he's scared he may be out of a job in a few months and he's wishing he was at airtran.

FL717 calm down don't them get to you.

Scramjet

 

[ETXflyer]

Easy Big Fellas!

Man, I guess I touched nerve! Maybe "a bunch of crap" wasn't the best way to express my opinion on the subject, and yea, I guess I am a cheap bast@rd, but I will admit, it was absolutely worth $25 to get where I was going. I look at jumpseating as a way to get to and from work and I trying to make the point that it seemed unfair. I don't think that I am a "pathetic whiner" or "moron" because I have a different opinion about this. I do know that when ANY ONE of my fellow aviators jumps on my plane, I will continue to make them feel as welcome and at home as I can, regardless of what carrier they fly for. I will also continue to to jump on Airtran when I can and pay the $25 when I have to. I won't complain about it to anybody, but if if there is a FORUM for discussion on the subject, I will still have my same opinion.

 

[Caveman]

I propose a simple plan to make all jumpseating fair and equitable. Exact reciprocity. If your airline allows unlimited JS then we will do the same for your guys. If your airline only allows one, well when we have one on board already you don't get a seat. If the 1st ones free and the rest have to pay, same deal for your guys and gals.

A while back I suggested that the best way to get the Feds to back off the no JS policy on UPS,FedEx, et al was to deny a few JS so that their management would put some political pressure on the feds. Nothing like a bunch of cancelled flights because pilots couldn't get to work to raise the consciousness of the boss. I was flamed to hell and back for that idea. I still think it would have worked though.

It'll be interesting to see how this new freight JS experiment plays out. If only ATA members are allowed to participate I can't wait to see what happens when an ATA member airline pilot shows up at a non ATA member airline looking for a ride.

BTW, CMR will take all JS's we can find seats for.

 

[trainerjet]

I propose a simple plan to make all jumpseating fair and equitable. Exact reciprocity. If your airline allows unlimited JS then we will do the same for your guys. If your airline only allows one, well when we have one on board already you don't get a seat. If the 1st ones free and the rest have to pay, same deal for your guys and gals.

A while back I suggested that the best way to get the Feds to back off the no JS policy on UPS,FedEx, et al was to deny a few JS so that their management would put some political pressure on the feds. Nothing like a bunch of cancelled flights because pilots couldn't get to work to raise the consciousness of the boss. I was flamed to hell and back for that idea. I still think it would have worked though.

Evidently, you don't get the big picture. The pilots have very little, if anything, to do with the jumpseat policies at most airlnes. I'm surprised that you believe you can change the policy at your company at your own whim to suit your "exact reciprocity" plan based upon who shows up that day requesting a jumpseat. I refuse to use the jumpseat as any sort of political tool to further my agenda. I will not hold pilots hostage just so I can prove a point. Denying a jumpseat will have ZERO effect on any airline's management personnel. Let alone enough effect to force them to "put some political pressure on the feds". Believing otherwise is just naive.

 

[flybrowntails]

"flybrowntails is just expressing his anger because he spends sleepless days away from home, and long nights, dozing off in his 727. As a matter fact I heard him say, he hates his schedule because quote "I've been fighting sleep for months in addition i've been doomed to boredom at this place"."

Wow-making a simple comment is expressing anger? (okay) Sleepless days away and dozing in the 727--sounds fun but no I'm sorry. That's a fantastic quote I made(?) "doomed at UPS"--once again no I'm sorry.

I hope everyone has a better day.

 

[Caveman]

"Evidently, you don't get the big picture."

Why not, because I disagree with you?

"The pilots have very little, if anything, to do with the jumpseat policies at most airlnes."

So what.

"I'm surprised that you believe you can change the policy at your company at your own whim to suit your "exact reciprocity" plan based upon who shows up that day requesting a jumpseat."

I never said that I could change our policy. I suggested that if equal reciprocity were the policy at all airlines then no one could complain about it being unfair.

"I refuse to use the jumpseat as any sort of political tool to further my agenda."

Me either and I don't have an agenda. I'm just thinking out loud. You know. Exchange of ideas and all that sort of thing.

"I will not hold pilots hostage just so I can prove a point."

Me either.

"Denying a jumpseat will have ZERO effect on any airline's management personnel. Let alone enough effect to force them to "put some political pressure on the feds"."

I disagree. Money talks. If UPS can't complete flights because of pilots not being available, sooner or later it will cost them enough money to get interested and involved. Right now there is no pain for UPS management so in their world there is no problem.

"Believing otherwise is just naive."

No it's not naive. It's a different point of view than yours, but it isn't naive.

 

[Ty Webb]

Extra300, the "Extra" must be for extra @sshole. I have to laugh at your suggestion that FL717 must have been turned down at UAL.

I did not apply to UAL either. You see, my University had a UAL internship program, and I got to see first hand the type of idiots, box-checkers and drooling offspring of UAL pilots that were getting hired in the 1990's under the ridiculous corporate policies that were in effect at UAL.

To say that someone got turned down by United is hardly an insult . . . . to say that they got hired, well, that's another animal.

 

[FLB717]

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG ....uuummm...no I quess not

"This is the most interesting thread all week.. a must read....I give it two thumbs up"-Sssy Fill & Rope Burn

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I'm a bit confused as to why this is so controversial. If I try to jumpseat on most airlines and the jumpseat is taken I get left behind unless I just happen to have a pass in my back pocket. Most of the time a pass is 25-30 bucks and it has to be purchased through my own airline.

Most of us would like to see an unlimited jumpseat policy throughout the industry. Unfortunately the management has not allowed that to happen. At least Airtran has made it easy to purchase a pass. I know a lot of commuters that carry a couple of different passes with them at all times. How is this Airtran arrangement such a bad deal?

 

[Boeingman]

Extra300, the "Extra" must be for extra @sshole. I have to laugh at your suggestion that FL717 must have been turned down at UAL.

I did not apply to UAL either. You see, my University had a UAL internship program, and I got to see first hand the type of idiots, box-checkers and drooling offspring of UAL pilots that were getting hired in the 1990's under the ridiculous corporate policies that were in effect at UAL.

To say that someone got turned down by United is hardly an insult . . . . to say that they got hired, well, that's another animal.

I'll bet there are many a pilot out there thanking their lucky stars they are not at UAL. Especially after another eye watering loss for 2Q. You'd also think with all that has happened some would have a bit more humility. Oh well a few always slip through the cracks.

Incidently, I have used your jumpseats and paid the fee knowing full well the line pilots don't have a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing to do with it.

All I say to you is thanks for the ride and I hope I may reciprocate someday getting you guys home or to work.

 

[Spur]

If UPS can't complete flights because of pilots not being available, sooner or later it will cost them enough money to get interested and involved.

You bet they will get involved-- by firing pilots. I bet they would love to start firing their senior capts and replace them with cheap newhires, and force them to live in SDF. Now would be a great time to do it, with thousands of out of work pilots begging for any job. Probably a great tool to break the union during the negotiations. Quick Caveman! Forward your idea to your buds in UPS management! Maybe you'll be the first pilot they hire to replace the dozens they will get to fire.

 

[StopNTSing]

Sheesh! I love all you AirTran guys, but you need to quit being so defensive about this and trying to spin it as some kind of a good deal. The fact is the "bar" HAS been lowered. AirTran mgmt has just set a very unfortunate precedent that, mark my words, will become commonplace throught the industry. The days of the free ride to/from work are rapidly coming to a close.

 

[Caveman]

"You bet they will get involved-- by firing pilots. I bet they would love to start firing their senior capts and replace them with cheap newhires, and force them to live in SDF. Now would be a great time to do it, with thousands of out of work pilots begging for any job. Probably a great tool to break the union during the negotiations. Quick Caveman! Forward your idea to your buds in UPS management! Maybe you'll be the first pilot they hire to replace the dozens they will get to fire."

Why is that when someone has a different or controversial position the best some of you can do is throw insults? Is your position so weak that you can't engage in rational discourse? It's fine to disagree. We don't have to be disagreeable. Sheeesh!

 

[trainerjet]

mark my words, will become commonplace throught the industry.

I guess you and your SWA buddies spend so much time patting each other on the back, that you loose sight of reality. Taking the number of jumpseaters that there are jumpseats on the aircraft IS commonplace throughout the industry. As someone mentioned earlier, many commuting pilots carry passes they have acquired from their pass dept. as back-ups. Air Tran simply allows you to purchase this pass at the gate...if they enforce this policy at all.

If you don't like Air Tran's jumpseat policy, no one is forcing you to ride. However, I'm certain the Air Tran pilots would be happy to have you, and make you feel welcome, regardless of your warped view and attitude.

 

[Spur]

Why is that when someone has a different or controversial position the best some of you can do is throw insults?

My post was not intended to insult you. I was using sarcasm and ridicule to emphasize a valid point. UPS is not responsible for getting its pilots to work... the pilots are. End up with several missed assignments because your jumpseat fell through and you will get fired. Having a bunch of fired pilots trying to get their jobs back is not good for negotiating a new contract. I bet UPS would love to have that card to play.

Is that better?

 

[Caveman]

Yeah, it is better. You also have a valid point, but I'm assuming a commuter clause is in place to preclude mgmt from firing anyone.

 

[adqrip]

$25 won't pay for my gas

The $25 bucks that I have only paid once would not even pay for the gas my trusty F-150 (Ford) would burn between MEM & ATL. I will gladly pay the coin so I can get to work. Many thanks to the AirTran guys/gals that allow me to fly with them. rip

 

[freightdoggie]

I work for a 135 company and have had no problems jumpseating with AirTran yet, they are great.
I jumpseat on Southwest all the time and they are great too. Ive only been bumped once due to a late arriving passenger. However, from other friends in the company, they say they have problems jumpseating with America West. Can anyone tell me why that is?
We just signed agreements with ACA and Northwest too, I have not yet tried to jumpseat with these carriers, mainly because I already know the answer to my question. Any thoughts??

 

[klhoard]

Commuter Clause??

Yeah, it is better. You also have a valid point, but I'm assuming a commuter clause is in place to preclude mgmt from firing anyone.

At FDX, the only "amnesty" you have is if you are booked on a FDX jumpseat that meets certain parameters. Even then, if you miss your trip, it still has to be filled with a reserve pilot (at straight pay), and you lose the pay for the trip.

Anything else and you're operating in Class G airspace. . . .

 

[StopNTSing]

I guess you and your SWA buddies spend so much time patting each other on the back, that you loose sight of reality.

Uh-huh. That's about as relevant to this issue as me saying that chip on your shoulder towards SWA seems to be clouding your ability to understand my point.

Taking the number of jumpseaters that there are jumpseats on the aircraft IS commonplace throughout the industry.

Yes, but charging a jumpseater for a ride is not. Why is that so hard to understand?

As someone mentioned earlier, many commuting pilots carry passes they have acquired from their pass dept. as back-ups. Air Tran simply allows you to purchase this pass at the gate...if they enforce this policy at all.

If you don't like Air Tran's jumpseat policy, no one is forcing you to ride. However, I'm certain the Air Tran pilots would be happy to have you, and make you feel welcome, regardless of your warped view and attitude.

Let's see if I have this straight....AirTran is now charging me or other commuting pilots $25 for something that used to be free. And expressing my disappointment with that fact gives me a "warped view and attitude?" The value of this profession has already taken so many hits in the last two years....it's just a shame to see yet another bennie going by the wayside as well. That's all.

 

[FL717]

Yes, but charging a jumpseater for a ride is not. Why is that so hard to understand?


Let's see if I have this straight....AirTran is now charging me or other commuting pilots $25 for something that used to be free. And expressing my disappointment with that fact gives me a "warped view and attitude?" The value of this profession has already taken so many hits in the last two years....it's just a shame to see yet another bennie going by the wayside as well. That's all.

I have quoted your post because it is completely WRONG. You make it sound like you cannot jumpseat on AirTran without paying money. That is NOT TRUE. What is so hard about understanding the AirTran jumpseat policy. People like you make this so frustrating.

We STILL allow one "jumpseater" to jumpseat for free. Okay.. stop. You got that part. Okay.. How is this different than many other airlines? There are some that allow unlimited riders. AirTran used to be like that for years. Management changed it to ONLY one jumpseater per flight. Okay... now here is the difference: The difference is that the company decided that rather than let all additional jumpseaters stay behind to go catch another flight, you can on-the-spot non rev for $25.00. If you were to go out and buy a non-rev pass at your pass bureau, it would cost more than that.

This is NOT lowering the jumpseat bar. It is not as good as unlimited, but still better than an empty plane pulling away from the gate with you sitting there trying to make a show time at work. No other airline that I am aware that allows only one jumpseat rider does this. Why don't you start a thread harping on the airlines that only allow one jumpseat rider per aircraft.. period. Their policy is worse than ours. They are the ones lowering the bar - according to your logic.

Guys.. I'm done with this topic. Its not that difficult to understand.. and quite frankly I don't understand how this is so complex to some people. If you don't like it then wait for the next flight and sign up early for the FREE... FREE... FREE ride.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes, but charging a jumpseater for a ride is not. Why is that so hard to understand?
[/i]


As has already been pointed out many times, they are not charging a jumpseater- if you were the jumpseater, you would already have your seat. Sheeesh!

And, if an AirTran pilot shows up for the jumpseat, or three, or four, or a hundred, they will STILL take one off-line jumpseater for free.

Try that at Delta, American, etc. Unless the guy will write himself a pass, you're cooling your heels. buddy. . . . . buy a seat for $25.? Not an option.

 

[trainerjet]

Uh-huh. That's about as relevant to this issue as me saying that chip on your shoulder towards SWA seems to be clouding your ability to understand my point.

No..my point is that it seems to be clouding YOUR ability to understand this issue. As others have said...over and over and over...and you still don't seem to get it...let me go slow.

Air Tran does not charge for the jumpseat. Regardless of the number of Air Tran pilots on the "jumpseat" they will take one off-line pilot on the 'jumpseat" for free. Any additional pilots wanting to ride can purchase a non-rev pass for $25.

If you can't understand that, go back to school. I suggest the 3rd grade, for starters.

 

[StopNTSing]

We STILL allow one "jumpseater" to jumpseat for free. Okay.. stop. You got that part. Okay.. How is this different than many other airlines? There are some that allow unlimited riders. AirTran used to be like that for years. Management changed it to ONLY one jumpseater per flight. Okay... now here is the difference: The difference is that the company decided that rather than let all additional jumpseaters stay behind to go catch another flight, you can on-the-spot non rev for $25.00. If you were to go out and buy a non-rev pass at your pass bureau, it would cost more than that.

This is NOT lowering the jumpseat bar. It is not as good as unlimited, but still better than an empty plane pulling away from the gate with you sitting there trying to make a show time at work. No other airline that I am aware that allows only one jumpseat rider does this. Why don't you start a thread harping on the airlines that only allow one jumpseat rider per aircraft.. period. Their policy is worse than ours. They are the ones lowering the bar - according to your logic.

I agree that AirTran's policy is better than a one-and-only-one free jumpseater, no if's, and's or but's. But if I am the hapless second jumpseater who used to ride for free on you guys....that's the raw deal. It's the whole notion of charging pilots to jumpseat that I hate to hear in any way, shape, or form. Because it won't stop here with only the second jumpseater. Why do you think your management changed the policy to begin with? Revenue. In this revenue-starved environment we're all in, it's just a matter of time before the bean-counters at perhaps some other airline realize they could squeeze a few more bucks on to the bottom line by tagging those pesky off-line jumpseating interlopers with a "handling fee" of some sort. Then before you know it, badda-bing badda-boom, no more free rides....anywhere. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid the camel's nose is already under the tent on this one.

 

[FLB717]

If Delta had our jumpseat policy it would be an improvment for using them? Nuff said Im done with this thread.

 

[Dizel8]

AAI did not change the policy recently, it was in effect prior to all the mayhem, however, I have never seen it enforced. Apparently some people have

But I still think AAI policy beats most airlines. Of course there are some airlines, who have a great and very liberal attitude. They are to be applauded heavily and we can only hope that all airlines goes that route, U came onboard recently. There is enough shat going on these days, that, regardles of who you work for, we all need to try to make the commute as easy as possible. We got enough grief as is, why add to it.

I know, that the company I work for, allows as many jumpseaters as there are seats, we even allow OAL access to the F/A's extra seats. Being a commuter myself, I bend over backwards to accomodate this need.

Not allowing jumpseaters acces when there is room is just silly, IMHO. So yes, free is great, but AAI at least allows me to buy a pass, something which cannot be said for most of the "ONE jumpseat airlines".

Just my two cents.