AirTran, are you now ready to consider ALPA?

[SkiFishFly]

If the Mediator says yes, then we (Management and the pilots) are released into a 30 day cooling off period. You can still negotiate during this, but I doubt the company would do much.

At the end of the 30 days, management is free to impose its last offer which, currently, is T.A. 2. Nothing else that I'm aware of has actually be put on the table as an "offered contract".

However, if Management takes the position that the concessionary package the NPA BoD rightfully voted down is their last offer, and the NMB agrees, then the company can impose the concessionary offer.

The pilots, during that cooling off period, would have to take a strike vote IF they wanted to engage in self-help at the end of the 30-day cooling off period, and would be free to strike when management imposes the last contract offer. The NPA BoD would have to approve a strike vote and the strike vote would have to pass by a majority.

The furloughed pilots would be able to vote on it, and I think we know how many would probably vote YES to a strike. Add that to everyone else who is hopping mad right now, and you might have a successful strike vote.

I don't know the status of SPC preparedness at the moment, or how the last Wilson Polling data went in regards to strike vote authorization. We also don't know IF that is the company's plan this week OR if the mediator is in the frame of mind to allow it. All we know is the company formally requested a one-day meeting which, arguably, only has one interpretation right now.

Methinks the company is betting on the poor performance the past two quarters and the furloughs to scare people, along with the discord in the union and believes there will be a lack of ability to lead a successful strike. I think they're wrong, just as they were on T.A.'s 1 and 2, and I also believe that, with oil down and revenue up, that the rest of the year will be better, and that management wants to do this before things turn for positive financially, but the company seems to have their own ideas about reality.

I feel like the "proposal" the company is going to have at the upcoming meeting will be our current contract cut to pieces with lots of concessions. If the union looks at it and says "no way" and then the company asks to be released and the NMB says OK - does that mean the company can impose what they threw on the table at the last meeting? That hardly seems appropriate.

 

[Max Powers]

If the company does ask to be released and the NMB says yes - then what can the company do as far as our current contract? Do they get to impose whatever they want?

Once we also agree to be released; then the 30 day cool off begins.....This is where we have the maximum amount of leverage(actually this is the only place we have leverage in this horrible enviroment) and is the only point at which we can effectively negotiate.......Especially since the NMB is republican controlled......3 people sit on the NMB board 2 are elected by the President and his Admin the other from the minority party therefore it has a ridiculous lean towards corporate america and the lone pro-union NMB board member can not out vote the two other guys.

After 30 days and with no agreement in place the company can impose anything they want on us BUT we can STRIKE AirTran.

Don't be too hard on the NPA we have a bunch of people that work here that simply don't understand how a UNION works. I hear lots of dissent but we need to stay united to make it to the 30 day cooling off period. Historically nothing gets done until the 30 day period begins. Our goal should be to make it to the 30 day cool off!!!!! Mem-rat is a silly diversion that uninformed people pushed. Every union must have the power to make decision or they will not be taken seriously in any negotiations.

 

[Max Powers]

Lear I think they have the legal right to impose anything after 30 day period?

 

[stlflyguy]

Go on, join ALPA. Prater needs some more legal defense money!

stlflyguy
(former TWA)

 

[Max Powers]

Go on, join ALPA. Prater needs some more legal defense money!

stlflyguy
(former TWA)

Didn't your elected officials agree to screw the junior guy, so they could keep their job? Seems like next time we all vote we should pay attention to our elected officials seniority and make sure there is a healthy balance of senior along with junior.

 

[stlflyguy]

Didn't your elected officials agree to screw the junior guy, so they could keep their job? Seems like next time we all vote we should pay attention to our elected officials seniority and make sure there is a healthy balance of senior along with junior.

Uh, no. ALPA NATIONAL came this close to getting the American pilots back into the fold. Then the TWA merger was announced. Do you think ALPA National used "the strength of the largest pilot union" to fairly represent the TWA pilots?

C'mon...I know you can do it....!

stlflyguy

 

[PCL_128]

What about Teamsters?

I'd rather be gang raped in prison than become a Teamster. Most corrupt and useless organization in existence. No thanks.

Yes to ALPA!

 

[Max Powers]

Uh, no. ALPA NATIONAL came this close to getting the American pilots back into the fold. Then the TWA merger was announced. Do you think ALPA National used "the strength of the largest pilot union" to fairly represent the TWA pilots?

C'mon...I know you can do it....!

stlflyguy

So your elected officials said no. And ALPA refused to help even though your Elected union leaders refused to any agreement. In other words APA forced this on you so shouldn't you be blaming them and not ALPA? I guess I don't get who and why your mad at.

I'm NOT doubting you all got the shaft but why is ALPA fully to blame?

 

[freightdogfred]

I'd rather be gang raped in prison than become a Teamster.

Hmmm....I'll think I'll take the teamsters, myself.
See ya round the cellblock.

 

[Lear70]

Hmmm....I'll think I'll take the teamsters, myself.
See ya round the cellblock.

You know, I was kind of thinking about saying something to the same effect, but I have no knowledge of PCL's extracurricular interests...

I'm just kidding, man, I don't like the idea of Teamsters, either, but it was an easy shot...

 

[stlflyguy]

So your elected officials said no. And ALPA refused to help even though your Elected union leaders refused to any agreement. In other words APA forced this on you so shouldn't you be blaming them and not ALPA? I guess I don't get who and why your mad at.

I'm NOT doubting you all got the shaft but why is ALPA fully to blame?

Time for a reading assignment: http://www.twapilots.com/html/complaint.html

ALPA essentially refused to do anything but mislead the TWA pilots into a severely disadvantaged position.

Then again, join ALPA. It'll lessen the assessment for all.

stlflyguy

 

[Max Powers]

Time for a reading assignment: http://www.twapilots.com/html/complaint.html

ALPA essentially refused to do anything but mislead the TWA pilots into a severely disadvantaged position.

Then again, join ALPA. It'll lessen the assessment for all.

stlflyguy

Proving a lack of good faith is an almost impossible nut to crack. I still don't get what motive ALPA would have to intentionally screw you over? They lost further membership with the deal, didn't they. I think your going after the wrong people......TWA mgmt or American mgmt along with their pilots would be a better target one would think.

 

[stlflyguy]

Proving a lack of good faith is an almost impossible nut to crack. I still don't get what motive ALPA would have to intentionally screw you over? They lost further membership with the deal, didn't they. I think your going after the wrong people......TWA mgmt or American mgmt along with their pilots would be a better target one would think.

I believe you to be predisposed to thinking that it could never happen. That's fine. Let it play out in court.

stlflyguy

 

[PCL_128]

Oh, it'll play out in court. The result will be the same as the result from the ridiculous RJDC lawsuit: a settlement that pays you pennies on the dollar for your legal expenses.

 

[Max Powers]

I believe you to be predisposed to thinking that it could never happen. That's fine. Let it play out in court.

stlflyguy

No, I DO believe it all happened. But was it illegal? I think the senior guys were trying to save themselves and realized if they fought this integration, without playing along, everyone would be screwed. In other words they did not want to over play their hand, which is wise when you are negotiating from bankruptcy court. NWA mechanics overplayed their hand even when they knew it was a losing hand - they could of saved a few jobs but choose to fight and like everyone predicted they lost.

Dude I really feel for you and you did get screwed but I would let it go. Your sanity is more important and you can't really blame the people your blaming. IMHO.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

A few points in favor of ALPA:

1. A shiny magazine.
2. Loss of license/medical protection.
3. Resources.
4. Legal dept. that's worth a damn.
5. It can't get much worse than NPA.
6. They're cheaper.

 

[Mamma]

Proving a lack of good faith is an almost impossible nut to crack. I still don't get what motive ALPA would have to intentionally screw you over? They lost further membership with the deal, didn't they. I think your going after the wrong people......TWA mgmt or American mgmt along with their pilots would be a better target one would think.

ALPA's motive seemed to be getting the $30 million in dues American pilots would bring. I could see Duane throwing the 2300 TWA guys under the bus for 11,000 American pilots. Also, lack of good faith seems easy to prove in the fact that ALPA continually lied to TWA and Duane refused to divulge what was going on. However things ended up, ALPA had an obligation to fairly represent TWA but let a conflict of interest lead them down another path.

 

[zman]

Alpa Yes

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Can those scumbag scabs even be part of ALPA again? Arent they banned for life or something?
As far as Teamsters, I do not know if it would be better, worse, or the same. I do know that if Teamster union was the pilot union back at the Eastern problem then the scabs would have trouble eating solid food again... ever. Netjets are teamsters and they have a good contract and the best medical. I have a few family members that are Teamsters retired and they have pretty good pensions and awesome medical coverage. I remember when a threat of Teamster strike would cripple an industry and get companies to take notice. I have known Teamster employees that were making over 20 bucks an hour driving forklifts and that was back in the 80s. No union has ever had it easy. No labor group as it easy. Any mangement team that works for a public traded company has to get the most from employees for as little as possible. That is their job. Our job is to move airplanes and their job is to make sure it is done as cheaply as possible. There really is no light at the end of this tunnel so might as well drive as fast as possible.

 

[PCL_128]

Netjets dumped the Teamsters and created their own union.