AirTran 737 Captains voting "NO"

[scrub]

Wow!!!! Lots of maturity here, it's amazing you guys can fly airplanes!

 

[freightdogfred]

It is truly sad that some people's obvious passion cannot be put to good use and try to make this difficult situation better. Instead, dump that fuel on the fire. Nice. It should be obvious who this is directed to. There are arrogant, self-centered asses on both sides of this deal, so don't feel like you are alone.

I did not "Win Big". I will lose my 737CA seat after six years in it, I will lose my base and have to commute (the most frustrating part), I will lose a defined contribution plan, I will lose thirty-two percent seniority, etc. I also get to be treated like the unwanted, red-headed step child for years to come. Not a win, at all. Completely, shockingly opposite from what I expected. COMPLETELY.

I thought the protections of the first agreement were ridiculous, overly complex, and expensive. If the "Fair and Equitable" part of the whole "Welcome to the SWA Family" was indeed meant to be followed, DOH would have probably been the most fair for both sides, letting the chips fall where they may, followed by arbitration if the two sides were too far apart. Plain and simple. A certain process to be followed was agreed to in the beginning and that is what i had expected. I never, ever thought I would be forced to vote with a gun to my head for my job. I never thought SWA and the famous culture would do that to 1700+ pilots already welcomed to the family.

What a difference one year can make. Good luck to all; even the arrogant and self-centered.

Flame on, if you must.

Well, glass is half full, or half empty. Look what you DO get.

1) A nice, glossy slick magazine with pretty pictures of airplanes and a "best moustaches" page free of charge till 2015.

2) A chance to really get to know Andy over at Mr C's, you can swap fishin stories with him and become a regular, the WN guys already promised to buy you a beer. Or, you'll have a regular supply of Sourdough bread the bakery is right near the airport in Oakland.

3) A chance to root for a new team that might go to the SuperBowl...are you a Raiders, Bears or Ravens fan by chance? (I'm picking the Ravens to go all the way)

At least SW is a good company, everyone's happy there and most of the guys I've met are great guys, with a few exceptions. (you know who you are) It ain't exactly a sweatshop over there. It is what it is, it should be better but it could be worse, c'est la vie. Good luck to all of us.

 

[maru657]

I thought the protections of the first agreement were ridiculous, overly complex, and expensive. If the "Fair and Equitable" part of the whole "Welcome to the SWA Family" was indeed meant to be followed, DOH would have probably been the most fair for both sides, letting the chips fall where they may, followed by arbitration if the two sides were too far apart. Plain and simple. A certain process to be followed was agreed to in the beginning and that is what i had expected. I never, ever thought I would be forced to vote with a gun to my head for my job. I never thought SWA and the famous culture would do that to 1700+ pilots already welcomed to the family.
On the other hand, in the future you'll be able to observe that famous culture unravel as two disparate pilot groups circle each other like boxers looking for an opening. It's nothing new in this industry. Imagine the feelings of some Southwest captain flying with a former Airtran captain watching every move and looking for mistakes with the FAA on speed dial. It ought to be entertaining.

 

[humveedriver]

Have fun with that Maru. Not getting violated is hard enough with out looking for trouble. I doubt that kinda of crap will be tolerated by either side. Try reading freight dogs post again.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I did not "Win Big". I will lose my 737CA seat after six years in it, I will lose my base and have to commute (the most frustrating part), I will lose a defined contribution plan, I will lose thirty-two percent seniority, etc. I also get to be treated like the unwanted, red-headed step child for years to come. Not a win, at all. Completely, shockingly opposite from what I expected. COMPLETELY.

Really? Given the history of how Herbalife and his clone, the God King have treated other pilot groups? You should have at least recognized you were going to get raped just by what the F9 guys experienced.

DOH would have probably been the most fair for both sides, letting the chips fall where they may, followed by arbitration if the two sides were too far apart. Plain and simple.

Exactly. Career expectations for both sides are the same...737 CA. However, the arrogance of the SWA group won out.

I never, ever thought I would be forced to vote with a gun to my head for my job. I never thought SWA and the famous culture would do that to 1700+ pilots already welcomed to the family.

But you're not part of the family. You were "Acquired, not Hired". You didn't pay the $5K for a 737 type rating to buy an interview. You're inferior. Obviously, you didn't recognize that.

You seriously need to bow down, face West, and genuflect to the God King while you get raped. And do it with a smile on your face, please.

Imagine the feelings of some Southwest captain flying with a former Airtran captain watching every move and looking for mistakes with the FAA on speed dial. It ought to be entertaining.

There you have it. DoH would have totally negated this. But, BOTH of your groups are voting for it and BOTH of you will reap what you sow.

Remember the Law of Unintended Consequences...

 

[Sacha]

Youre brilliant Maru......at the inquiry the FAA will then say..."so you watched him making a mistake and said nothing?"........then SWA will say Captain gets a month off.....First Officer gets fired......

Maru....were you on the Airtran negotiating committee?........


Worse yet, he ends up being a real dumb******************** like the Western DC10 F/O circa 1980 or so, who hated the Captain so much, he kept his mouth shut as the Captain shot an approach to a closed runway in Mexico City...waited a little too long to point out the error and they all ended up dead.....

Boy, he sure showed him......Idiot.

 

[madjack]

I never thought SWA and the famous culture would do that to 1700+ pilots already welcomed to the family...

ALPA is spinning this thing in the papers to try and get a no vote on the SWA side...so forget the happy horse poop about culture, this has been and will remain a fight for seniority...AAI pilots wanted the SWA seniority and the pay and benefits...DOH is NOT going to happen unless we (SWAPA) vote this down and we go to arby...if we are that foolish (as your MEC was on AIP1), then we deserve what we get in arby...

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, glass is half full, or half empty. Look what you DO get.

1) A nice, glossy slick magazine with pretty pictures of airplanes and a "best moustaches" page free of charge till 2015.

I started to grow one of those moustaches a few years ago . . . . . I showed up for my first flight, and the lead F/A, a rather outspoken, yet attractive young lady, looked at me, and said, "Oh, HELL NO!".

When I got to the hotel, I took her advice. . . . I wonder if she took mine?
:laugh:

 

[Fubijaakr]

DOH is NOT going to happen unless we (SWAPA) vote this down and we go to arby....

Wow, you slipped up. The truth came out of an SWA pilot. You're correct...an arbitrator would give the AAI guys DoH or some kind of fenced ratio deal.

And that's EXACTLY what the greedy SWA guys are afraid of...not being able to vault over the earned seniority of the AAI pilots.

Its also the reason this Sacka crap will pass.

 

[madjack]

Wow, you slipped up. The truth came out of an SWA pilot. You're correct...an arbitrator would give the AAI guys DoH or some kind of fenced ratio deal.

And that's EXACTLY what the greedy SWA guys are afraid of...not being able to vault over the earned seniority of the AAI pilots.


Ok, so why don't the AAI pilots vote it down if the next stop is arby and they will get a better deal in arby? Is that what you are recommending mr FUBI?

 

[Fubijaakr]

I think the AAI pilots SHOULD vote it down. Unfortunately, with a gun to their head, most won't have the stones to stand up to the God King.

I'd LOVE to see the arbitrator jam DoH up your butt.

 

[dh82dvr]

A chance to root for a new team that might go to the SuperBowl...are you a Raiders, Bears or Ravens fan by chance? (I'm picking the Ravens to go all the way)

First of all, proper football (the kind without lots of pads and stopping to have someone figure out the nest move) is being played in NZ.


Secondly, I'm not rooting for any team, but whatever floats your boat as they say!!

 

[madjack]

most won't have the stones to stand up to the God King.

So the AAI pilots have no balls and the SWA guys are greedy...you must be perfect

 

[Fubijaakr]

Nope, but I do know the difference between right and wrong. Something you gave up when you paid $8K to get an interview.

 

[75cutter]

You boys are too funny. Love seeing your banter on how bad things are and how ALL have been (or about to be) screwed. Allow me to give a little insight. I'm a 20+ year captain at SWA and made over 260k last year. Not bad by most standards. I flew last week with a former USAir pilot with 18 years tenure. He told me he works less (12 days a month) and makes more money than he did at USair as a CAPTAIN !! Continue your bitching, it's fun to watch. I'm laughing all the way to the bank -as are SWA FO's. Second year average = 110K plus. Don't believe me - spend some time researching and less time ranting. The water is GOOD here at SWA!!

 

[Fubijaakr]

You SWA guys always toss your pay rate about. It reminds me of an old saying:

"Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing."

Seriously, it makes you all sound like a bunch of nouveau riche pretenders at the country club. Its classless.

Glad you're making a ton now. How much were your captains making 20 years ago? That's why SWA was the LAST choice of employers then.

 

[flynvixen]

Really? Given the history of how Herbalife and his clone, the God King have treated other pilot groups? You should have at least recognized you were going to get raped just by what the F9 guys experienced.



Exactly. Career expectations for both sides are the same...737 CA. However, the arrogance of the SWA group won out.



But you're not part of the family. You were "Acquired, not Hired". You didn't pay the $5K for a 737 type rating to buy an interview. You're inferior. Obviously, you didn't recognize that.

You seriously need to bow down, face West, and genuflect to the God King while you get raped. And do it with a smile on your face, please.



There you have it. DoH would have totally negated this. But, BOTH of your groups are voting for it and BOTH of you will reap what you sow.

Remember the Law of Unintended Consequences...

You should have taken the first offer, with a smile .....but noooooo ALPA says we can screw the SWAPA guys more .......and now look what that got you .......you guys or at least your greedy ALAP over reached and demanded more than you were entitled to......ALPA met its match on this one .......I hope it spells the end of ALPA.......You guys just dont get the whole acquired not merged thing ......in the end the government should not be telling company's how to do things.......be thankful you have a job with a company that just gave you a big pay raise.....I come to work for the pay check not a seat position, if the money is right I dont care what seat I sit in, you guys act like you took a big pay cut, lost your seat and got stapled too.......GMAFB

 

[flynvixen]

You SWA guys always toss your pay rate about. It reminds me of an old saying:

"Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing."

Seriously, it makes you all sound like a bunch of nouveau riche pretenders at the country club. Its classless.

Glad you're making a ton now. How much were your captains making 20 years ago? That's why SWA was the LAST choice of employers then.

20 years ago.......live in the now fool now look at who is the last choice.....up until just a few months ago.......Citrus anyone ?????

 

[humveedriver]

You should have taken the first offer, with a smile .....but noooooo ALPA says we can screw the SWAPA guys more .......and now look what that got you .......you guys or at least your greedy ALAP over reached and demanded more than you were entitled to......ALPA met its match on this one .......I hope it spells the end of ALPA.......You guys just dont get the whole acquired not merged thing ......in the end the government should not be telling company's how to do things.......be thankful you have a job with a company that just gave you a big pay raise.....I come to work for the pay check not a seat position, if the money is right I dont care what seat I sit in, you guys act like you took a big pay cut, lost your seat and got stapled too.......GMAFB

That dude works for Alaska. You could at least try to be relevant when you post.

 

[Fubijaakr]

That dude works for Alaska. You could at least try to be relevant when you post.

Exactly. That's why that whole "Hired, not acquired" argument is pure BS. Personally, I think the AAI guys would have been better served to torpedo this whole AIP sideshow and let the arbitrator decide.

Frankly, I believe in straight DoH in any merger, but look what the AWA guys accomplished by going for binding arbitration. They IMPROVED their seniority significantly by presenting a cogent argument to the arbitrator.

The Pickleballers went in and screamed "DOH" like a bunch of spoiled brats and look where it got them.

The SWA boys would have gone in and screamed "Hired, not acquired" and would have lost equally badly.

However, it looks like the majority of the AAI pilots are reacting to the God King putting a gun to their heads and will vote for this abortion.

Just an opinon, but a little steel in your sack at this point would probably pay huge dividends in the end.