Airtran 717s to fly for Delta?

[Cometman]

Well son...if the SLI had been done with fair and equitable adhered to, as was written, then "you hold what you can hold on the 737" wouldn't be so much of an an issue now would it? But since we had all of our 737 CA seats stolen from us and had a large chunk of our global seniority taken as well, all while a gun was being pointed at our heads, it's not as easy of a picture to paint as you portray it to be.

Move on son, it is over. You got what you voted for. Nobody wants to keep hearing about how you got screwed. If you really do not like it quit and find another job.

 

[On Your Six]

Before, the Delta people I know said we should have given Airtran guys relative seniority and we screwed them over big time. Now, one mention of them going to Delta and the backpeddling begins. Classic.

You will most likely get replacement aircraft at SWA for the 717s. So, you will get to stay there and get this big pay if you get on the 737. What's wrong with that? The announcement hasn't even come out (if it is true), and you are already trying to bail out? If the new planes are replacements for those 717s, then that might mean zero growth, but the pay would be great, and that's good, right? Wait to see if there is an announcement about what may or may not happen first.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[400ADude]

Well son...if the SLI had been done with fair and equitable adhered to, as was written, then "you hold what you can hold on the 737" wouldn't be so much of an an issue now would it? But since we had all of our 737 CA seats stolen from us and had a large chunk of our global seniority taken as well, all while a gun was being pointed at our heads, it's not as easy of a picture to paint as you portray it to be.

:crying::crying::crying::bawling::bawling::bawling:

You guys are lucky to have jobs. Still can't believe we have about 74 of a certain type of your guys getting to come over.

 

[PCL_128]

1. If the 717's go to Delta and the pilots go with them (it would take a large transfer rate for that to happen by the way), do those 717 CA's get DOH or better and hold their CA seats on the 717 when they get to Delta?

If the fragmentation language of our contract was triggered, then there would be a second seniority integration process under ALPA Merger Policy to decide how the pilots would be integrated. In other words, negotiations, mediation, and arbitration. However, you would first have to do a bid to figure out who would go with the airplanes, since it would go in seniority order. After that's determined, then the SLI process would begin.

Of course, this is all academic, since I doubt the airplanes are going anywhere, and almost certainly not with the pilots, since SWA is highly unlikely to make a deal that didn't involve a 1-for-1 swap of airframes. We haven't seen anything to indicate that SWA is interested in shrinking the fleet.

2. If the 717's go to Delta but the pilots go to SWA as originally planned, how are those 717 CA seats protected over at SWA since those pilots bid for, and were awarded, CA seats?

The ATN pilots have been through enough of an upheaval with this SLI. There is no reason why a 717 CA should all of a sudden now lose his CA seat after it was already awarded to him, just because Management has another mood swing regarding the 717.

Captains were awarded conditions and restrictions (C&Rs) that protected their captain seats under certain circumstances. Those circumstances didn't include the loss of the 717s. It was always known that when the 717s eventually do go away, whether it's tomorrow or 10 years from now, that system seniority rules the day. In other words, no protection for captain seats unless your SWA system seniority can hold it.

 

[Hamfighter]

Before, the Delta people I know said we should have given Airtran guys relative seniority and we screwed them over big time. Now, one mention of them going to Delta and the backpeddling begins. Classic.

Thing is, Delta's not merging with AirTran.

 

[PCL_128]

Thing is, Delta's not merging with AirTran.

If the fragmentation language is triggered, it becomes a merger for the people that go with the airplanes.

 

[On Your Six]

If the fragmentation language is triggered, it becomes a merger for the people that go with the airplanes.

Didn't Valuejet buy old Delta DC9s? Did Delta pilots come with them? If they go 20 per year and SWA gets 20 plus 737s per year, I don't see any fragmentation problems, rather an asset sale. If all 88 went in one day, maybe..... And that doesn't make sense. SWA's ATL presence would be decimated in one day. Btw, there are other 717s out there via Boeing that could be used first. I believe Boeing owes DL money for late 787 delays, and they own the leases on the 717s. How could the fragmentation policy be in effect if SWA returns the 717s to the Lessor? If AT didn't own them, and they go to the lessor and get mx and a new paint job, how again can you use fragmentation? You don't own them. What if half went to DL and the other half Air Serbia? Do you get to choose?



Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[FlyinGuy]

Well son...if the SLI had been done with fair and equitable adhered to, as was written, then "you hold what you can hold on the 737" wouldn't be so much of an an issue now would it? But since we had all of our 737 CA seats stolen from us and had a large chunk of our global seniority taken as well, all while a gun was being pointed at our heads, it's not as easy of a picture to paint as you portray it to be.

Well Gramps....why don't you go change out your depends and take another dose of your fiber. It must be close to 8 pm so it is past your bed time!!!

You can cry about fair and equitable and stolen seats but the bottom line is 86 percent of your group voted FOR SL10. So it must have been tolerable to some....

 

[FlyinGuy]

If the fragmentation language is triggered, it becomes a merger for the people that go with the airplanes.

Can you post the fragmentation language?

 

[PCL_128]

Didn't Valuejet buy old Delta DC9s? Did Delta pilots come with them?

Of course not. Delta was growing like mad at the time. Those pilots all still had Delta positions.

If they go 20 per year and SWA gets 20 plus 737s per year, I don't see any fragmentation problems, rather an asset sale.

Agreed, which is why I said "if" the fragmentation language was triggered. A swap of aircraft (717s for 737-800s, for example) would not trigger the fragmentation language.

If all 88 went in one day, maybe..... And that doesn't make sense. SWA's ATL presence would be decimated in one day.

Agreed. Like I said, this is all just academic. I don't see the airplanes going anywhere, and if they did, it would be a swap, not a reduction in the size of the fleet. Hence, no fragmentation.

 

[On Your Six]

The planes are owned by Boeing, not SWA. If they are returned to Boeing before they go somewhere else, can you fight to be a Boeing pilot? How does that work on leased vs owned planes? What if Boeing wanted them back tomorrow and SWA said ok?


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[PCL_128]

Can you post the fragmentation language?

Sorry, too lazy. The quick version is that the fragmentation language kicks in if airplanes that represent more than 30% of our block hours are transferred to another carrier within a 12 month period of time. If that happens, then the company is required to negotiate for the pilots to go with the planes, based on standard company staffing for that number of planes.

 

[PCL_128]

The planes are owned by Boeing, not SWA. If they are returned to Boeing before they go somewhere else, can you fight to be a Boeing pilot? How does that work on leased vs owned planes? What if Boeing wanted them back tomorrow and SWA said ok?

Doesn't matter. The language is written to include "a serious of transactions," not just direct transactions. The airplanes first going through Boeing to get to the new airline is still covered. Any sort of deal worked out in which the airplanes end up with another airline, even if it takes a dozen transactions to get there, triggers the language.

 

[On Your Six]

Sorry, too lazy. The quick version is that the fragmentation language kicks in if airplanes that represent more than 30% of our block hours are transferred to another carrier within a 12 month period of time. If that happens, then the company is required to negotiate for the pilots to go with the planes, based on standard company staffing for that number of planes.

So, 30% of 88 is like 26 or 27 per year. That probably could work. As I stated, there are others out there that could be added first to start the program in the desert now.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[Citrusflyer]

Seriously??!! Is anyone else out there not buying this - at all?