Airtan Pilots

[whalepilot747]

I am gload this thread was started because I was thinking of doing the same. I spent numerous years at ALPA carriers, was reprented by the teamsters and also in house. SWA is my 10th airline. When I came here I possesed the same paranoid ALPA attitude that I always had and still do in some ways. I always felt that the company was out to get me and had to cover my a$$. The hammer was gonna drop at any moment. Over time SWA has consistently surprised me and has exceeded my expectations. It truly is a different company to work for but hard to explain if one does not know the difference. I am not saying it's perfect, far from it but far exceeds anything I have ever experienced.

I am NO kool-aid drinker or Kernal. In fact, after having held numerous union positions throughout my years, quite the opposite. What was written about schedules and the like are completely true. I fly my normal line and maybe pick up a turn during the month. My schedule is very flexible due to our CBA and if I need to move something then generally it's not a problem.

If a Trannie bids back to FO, you will be making the same and probably more $$. If you stay a capt then you will definitely make serious $$ and have to work a little harder to manipulate your schedule but it can be done. Reserver here more often than not goes senior.

Vote how you feel is best for your family, check your egos at the door and make an objective (unemotional) decision. I just hope that after all the BS is done the culture here survives becasue it really is great place to work.

And no, I am pushing you (trrannie or swa pilots) to vote yes or no. Thats completely up to you and please keep the smart a$$ comments to yourself, they serve no purpose......

 

[Captain Jeff]

Thanks for your well thought out explanations.

 

[JT12345]

Why do you guys keep talking about what an Airtran pilot said ages ago. That was "BEFORE" this contract.

I got a 30% raise and I am very very happy with my life now. The contract bullsh!t has stopped. I am enjoying the extra cash and a better lifestyle. Not worse. Going from 70k to 100k is a lot different than going from 100k to 140k

especially with all the sh!t end of the stick negatives that is coming with this current offer.

Did u get that end part................. current offer.

 

[redflyer65]

Going from 70k to 100k is a lot different than going from 100k to 140k

What?

 

[4day]

He is drinking early..

 

[SWA/FO]

Did u get that end part................. current offer.

uh, final offer?

 

[Lear70]

Lear, I know it sounds unrealistic to imagine you could be awarded a line with all weekend flying and never have to work a weekend the entire mth. I will not lie and tell you it is simply to do, but it is very possible. Although, someone has to work the weekends. I get a weekend sch of Fri, Sat, Sun almost every month. Through Line Improvement Trip Trade (elitt) and Trip Trade Giveaway (ttga) I am very successful at trading this into the sch I want and my first choice when bidding which is sun mon tue turns and 2 days. For now you will just have to take my word. You will have it all figured out soon enough.

If you wanted to keep QOL and same $ then you could give away half your flying and enjoy 20+ days a mth off and 60 ttfp. The choice is yours. This mth I currently have 68 tfp and 22 days off. I will pick up open time and credit close to 135 and 15ish days off. I live in base which makes it much easier to be flexible.

Can you really do that being in the BOTTOM 10%? That's where I'll go... from #7 in MCO to 89.5% down from the top of the total list. If you can, then it changes a lot of pre-conceived ideas about the difficulty of dropping your trips through TTGA from another thread on the topic last week (and I haven't seen just how much of your line you can manipulate through ELITT as a VERY junior pilot).

I credit 80 hours here with 19 days off, all weekends and holidays off. Crediting the same there with the same schedule, even if I have to spend a lot of time at the computer playing with stuff, would make the pill a lot easier to swallow.

Lear 70, I respect you and your intellect on this SLI right up to the point that you say things like this when you were very willing, TWICE, that's 2 times to be a new hire at SWA and give up everything. Be real and you will be more respected.

The first time I was at a regional. The 2nd time I had just been hired here at AAI and wasn't off reserve. In both cases, moving to SWA would have been a Quality of Life improvement. My life right now is pretty dang good, which is why I never re-applied to SWA after the 2nd time. Once my year was up and I could re-apply, I was off probation, making a livable wage, and getting partial weekends off, so I never re-applied.

That said, I'm not trying to come off as disingenuous. I would still love to be part of Southwest airlines, have no qualms saying that, and that's the only reason I'm not out there screaming my head off for this deal to die. It's a crap deal for our pilots. Anyone who looks at the list can see that. It's not a great deal for YOUR pilots, either, but you're not losing any part of your current lifestyle. Not Quality of Life, not Pay, NOTHING. We are. So we're trying to figure out how to deal with that.

 

[zman]

I have a question for the SWA pilots, how common is it to drop all your trips and pick up trips in a senior base if you are junior? If so, how common is it to do that during certain times of the year? Also do you guys have long call reserve or do you guys have Pre-assigned Reserve long call as well? Plus do your reserves get used often, if so how much? Do certain bases get used more then others?

 

[madjack]

Not Quality of Life, not Pay, NOTHING. We are. So we're trying to figure out how to deal with that.

Yes we give up "nothing" but you gain $$ (1.4Bill for AAI vs $188mil for SWA) that's a LOT of anti angst medicine...put the crack pipe down and get over to the SWA side ASAP...you think the last 10 years were F'd up...

 

[Lear70]

Yes we give up "nothing" but you gain $$ (1.4Bill for AAI vs $188mil for SWA) that's a LOT of anti angst medicine...put the crack pipe down and get over to the SWA side ASAP...you think the last 10 years were F'd up...

I'd like to... truly. If they can work out the protections to be EXACTLY what the AIP was agreed to, there will probably be a vote and it will probably pass.

If they can't work out the 4-party agreement, the MEC will kill it and they'll go back and tweak it - still plenty of time for that before arbitration. Right now there's too many POTENTIAL loopholes in SL9 for me to vote YES to an agreement based on it (I sent a list of 12 I saw right off the bat to the MC 3 days ago and to the MEC today - my thanks to your NC for posting it on SWAPALUV so I could go through it line by line BEFORE the full agreement comes to vote over here). The 4-party agreement will have to answer/close all of those questions/issues.

We're not trying to CHANGE your SL9, simply clarifying in the 4-party agreement how it will work as we transition (how many crews/aircraft MINIMUM go to SWA with each AAI plane pulled from AAI service, what happens to 717 crews if they decide to extend the 30-month integration timeline, etc).

And no matter HOW much cash is involved, it WILL be an adjustment going from #7 in domicile to the bottom 10% of the combined list. It's not crack, and you can't just throw money at the problem. You guys will have to adjust to the inequities you see on your side, we will have to adjust to ours. It's human nature, can't fight it, just deal with it, keep a good attitude, and move on down the road. That's MY plan, at any rate... :beer:

 

[forumjunkie]

I have a question for the SWA pilots, how common is it to drop all your trips and pick up trips in a senior base if you are junior? If so, how common is it to do that during certain times of the year? Also do you guys have long call reserve or do you guys have Pre-assigned Reserve long call as well? Plus do your reserves get used often, if so how much? Do certain bases get used more then others?

It really depends on the base. Some bases are pretty easy to get rid of things, some are harder. I have always been able to give away, trade or elitt when i needed to move things around. I don't try and give my line away, but I have friends from my new hire class that do with great success. As for reserve, we don't have ready reserve or long call. Each reserve pilot has a 2 hour call out. I have only been called out 2 or 3 times. Most days the trip is assigned the night before. During the spring and summer months, and during the holiday season you will probably be used for every block. You also can trade with a line pilot for his trip and it increases your pay. Hope this answers your questions.

FJ

 

[Old Crow]

I live in Atlanta, have a wife and a gaggle of kids... My life has always and will always be centered around them. Though I appreciate the swapa contract and benefits, the staple job really makes this a bad deal.
Already,,, SWA announced the purchase of Airtran, stopped hiring at AT, and took the deliveries. All are good company decisions, but the fallout is that I was pushed from a 90 credit average to a hard 75 hour credit on reserve. I have taken quite a pay cut and quality of life hit already. Now with this isl I cannot hold Atlanta and will be pushed into a stapled environment, junior in all bases and probably on reserve for a long time. Oh yea, commuting, crash pad, and all that that I have always avoided. I built my house and will never move, probably couldn't sell it anyway. My kids are deeply involved in their schools and church. Therefore, moving is simply out of the question.

Is this worth the raise? To me, no. Seniority is just too important in this career because it gives you choices and opportunities.

Thanks CRJ for the informative post. I think we would all be better off in the long run with a fair integration that doesn't protect every single Airtran Capt and and every SW pilot above the 1600 something guy and throw 650 fo's under the bus, buy hey... That's just me.

Regardless... I will buy the first round. Look forward to flying with you guys.

 

[Ty Webb]

Great post, Old Crow.

I, too, think there are ways this agreement could be improved for BOTH groups.

 

[sf34dvr]

Have been at SW 31/2 years, currently on reserve in the base where I live. Could be line holder in most other bases. Driving to work makes it seem like a part time job. Came from regional- reserve QOL here is better than line holder at regional no question. Almost always assigned a trip the night before reserve block begins. Blocks are 3 or 4 days. 14 or 15 days off.

One thing to keep in mind- we have a.m. trips or p.m. trips. Very few (if any) are commutable both ends. If you commute as a line holder or on reserve you will need a hotel or crash pad at the beginning (a.m.) or end of trip (p.m.) Line holders and reserves all buy hotels.

When I commuted to PHX I held a hard line or blank line (think relief line). I put them up for giveaway asap. When open time was scarce, I was successful in giving away 2-3 trips a month, then picked up trips where I live. The flexibility here is one of our biggest QOL benefits. You will like it! When there is an abundance of open time guys are reluctant to pick up your trips (holding out for premium pay 1.5x's)

BTW, not trying to sell the deal- not sure it is all that good for us..... but, we will all be on the same team ...... eventually.

 

[redflyer65]

Old Crow,

I can appreciate your pain with this. I wouldn't mind there being rights for all you guys to keep your ATL base for an extended time. I just recently flew with a very senior guy who was kinda pissed he wouldn't be able to bid right into ATL immediately and reap the reward of were he lives...he's been commuting to a SW base for years.

It's a painful reality for all of us that Gary pulled the trigger on this deal and Bob pulled the big golden parachute. There is angst and heartburn on both sides, believe me.

RF

 

[Lear70]

If you can find me anywhere in SL9 that even GUARANTEES there will BE an ATL SWA pilot base anytime prior to the completion of Operational Integration, I'll buy you a case of Scotch.

The whole ATL base protection thing may not materialize for a year or two or longer. Re-read SL9. It only says that the NUMBER of overnighting aircraft, BY THE COMPLETION OF OPERATIONAL INTEGRATION, will be a certain number of AIRCRAFT. Not people. And Complete Operational Integration doesn't have to be just 30 months, it can be extended by mutual agreement between SWAPA and SWA.

So they have until the END of the operational integration to open the SWA ATL base. For any equipment type. And the only guarantee is the number of planes. Not the number of crews.

Lots of gotchas in SL9, folks... read the whole document. Hoping there's more specific protection language in the 4-party agreement on this and other issues.

 

[doer42]

I just want to ask one question. If you were stapled to the bottom of the list but got a 35% pay raise, would you be happy? If seniority is not that important at SW, then why do you all want such a big bump at the expense of them. I can see if they only brought pilots and not airplanes it would matter. Take AT out of the equation and your boss said "If I give you a small bump of 5% in seniority, a new domicile, and no reduction in pay, with nothing in return, do you wan't it?" What would you say?

 

[redflyer65]

There's a whole lot of Southwest pilots at the bottom of the list that did that very thing!

Leaving corporate, regional, and other jobs with great seniority to start over at the bottom of Southwest....and THOUSAND of others that are ready to do the same thing tomorrow if the window were to open.

All of these thousands of people answer your question easily. What's it like to work for one of the top, most admired companies in the world? Alot of people would like to know.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Great post, Old Crow.

I, too, think there are ways this agreement could be improved for BOTH groups.

The problem is that there will be no improving for anyone. At least that is the way I understand it. Looks like it is this deal or going through the drive thru at Arbys!!! Hopefully it all works out and we can keep this place from going all us air and stuff....

 

[wood pecker]

It can be improved only if it is not sent out for a vote. They will have time for more negotiations. If it is sent out for a vote then by the time all road shows etc.. are complete then there will be no time and off it goes to the arbitrator.

That is the understanding that I have gathered and has changed my and a few others to wanting the MEC to say no vs letting us vote.