Airspeed Restrictions

[Blue583]

I have a question about airspeed restrictions. I have read 91.117, but it seems to have missed at least one.

There are certain restrictions on aircraft above 10,000 and I'm sure others I am not thinking of right now. I was just wondering what they are or where to find them.

Thanks.

 

[time builder]

There's holding speed restrictions, 200, 230, or 265 depending on your altitiude, which can be further restricted.
"The following are exceptions to the maximum holding airspeeds:
(1) Holding patterns from 6,001' to 14,000' may be restricted to a maximum airspeed of 210 KIAS. This nonstandard pattern will be depicted by an icon.
(2) Holding patterns may be restricted to a maximum airspeed of 175 KIAS. An icon will depict this nonstandard pattern."
I believe that was in the AIM chaper 5

 

[SPilot]

There's a section farther behind in Part 91 dealing with supersonic speed, sonic boom restrictions and civil airplanes with capabilities to go supersonic.

There's also mention of speed restrictions in the different airspace paragraphs (still in 91), such as 200Kn in VFR corridors and while flying outside but below class B airspace.

 

[Blue583]

There's a section farther behind in Part 91 dealing with supersonic speed, sonic boom restrictions and civil airplanes with capabilities to go supersonic.

Thanks, I'll have to look for that. I think the exact question that I couldn't find the answer to is, what is the speed limit above 10,000. I know it's 250 below that, but I couldn't find anything for above. I'll take a look again, thanks.

 

[charter dog]

Thanks, I'll have to look for that. I think the exact question that I couldn't find the answer to is, what is the speed limit above 10,000. I know it's 250 below that, but I couldn't find anything for above. I'll take a look again, thanks.

Thou shalt not throw sonic booms about the sky! (unless a waiver is obtained.)

Beyond that, I can think of only the following speed restrictions above 10,000' msl:

1) The previously mentioned holding speed restrictions.

2) Speed restrictions noted on published procedures such as STARs.

3) Operation within class B, or D airspace, which is possible above 10,000' msl in at least two locations I can think of.

4) Any speed restriction issued by ATC.

5) AFM limitations that may apply.

Other than that, full speed ahead!

Best,

 

[atldc9]

Thou shalt not throw sonic booms about the sky! (unless a waiver is obtained.)

Beyond that, I can think of only the following speed restrictions above 10,000' msl:

1) The previously mentioned holding speed restrictions.

2) Speed restrictions noted on published procedures such as STARs.

3) Operation within class B, or D airspace, which is possible above 10,000' msl in at least two locations I can think of.

4) Any speed restriction issued by ATC.

5) AFM limitations that may apply.

Other than that, full speed ahead!

Best,

There are no speed restrictions above 10,000 msl in Class B airspace in the US.

 

[minitour]

There are no speed restrictions above 10,000 msl in Class B airspace in the US.

There's no speed restriction at all in class B airspace.

-mini

 

[atldc9]

Yeah, that is a better way to put it...

 

[charter dog]

Yeah, after seeing atldc9's comment, I went looking for the speed limit in class B airspace, but couldn't find it. That's because it isn't there. Doh! Boy I guess I was stuck in a time warp where TCAs, control zones and ATAs were the order of the day. Thanks for the point-out!

Best,

 

[NoahWerka]

"There's no speed restriction at all in class B airspace."
-mini

Seems to me operations in Class B fall under the speed restrictions of 91.117(a). There have been exceptions to the rule(remember the Houston departures?). I has been knowed too bee rong. Pleeze corekt me if i are now.

§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.

(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34292, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91–219, 55 FR 34708, Aug. 24, 1990; Amdt. 91–227, 56 FR 65657, Dec. 17, 1991; Amdt. 91–233, 58 FR 43554, Aug. 17, 1993]

 

[minitour]

"There's no speed restriction at all in class B airspace."
-mini

Seems to me operations in Class B fall under the speed restrictions of 91.117(a). There have been exceptions to the rule(remember the Houston departures?). I has been knowed too bee rong. Pleeze corekt me if i are now.

Not that I know of any US Class B airspace out there that is entirely above 10,000' MSL, but if there was such airspace, there would be no 250 knot speed restriction.

The restriction isn't being in Class B, it's being below 10,000'.

I know it's picking nits, but....

-mini

 

[NoahWerka]

Granted. Above 10k there is no speed restriction in Class B airspace.

 

[minitour]

Granted. Above 10k there is no speed restriction in Class B airspace.

I'm sure it's one of those "tomato - tomahto" things. Like the whole "first class, second class, third class medical" thing. You know...how some people teach it so students think it magically morphs from I to II on day 1 of month 7...or from II to III on day one of month 13...

I'm just in a nit-picky moooood....been talking to the wife and she makes me b*tchy.

-mini

 

[lawfly]

There is no speed RESTRICTION that is specific and unique to oeprations IN Class B (except for VFR corridors, discusssed below). Below 10,000, the 10/250 rule applies, regardless of class of airspace. There is the 200k rule for operations underlying (but not in) Class B airspace. In short, there is no speed restriction which derives solely from operation within Class B airsapce (except for the 200k restriction in a "VFR corridor designated through...Class B airspace"---91.117(c)). Indeed, Class B airsapce is NOT subject to certain restrictions found elsewhere, such as the 200 knot Class C/D primary airport speed restriction. (91.117(b)). So, the VFR corridor speed restriction appears to be the only restriction deriving from and specific to (certain VFR) operation within (designated portions of) Class B airspace.
In any event, the original post was about regulatory airspeed restrictions above 10,000.

 

[MauleSkinner]

§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).

So...is it the "Class B" that's designated for an airport, or is it the "airspace underlying" that's designated for an airport?

 

[charter dog]

Not that I know of any US Class B airspace out there that is entirely above 10,000' MSL, but if there was such airspace, there would be no 250 knot speed restriction.

The restriction isn't being in Class B, it's being below 10,000'.

I know it's picking nits, but....

-mini

Right!

Denver is the one I was thinking of. I believe the DEN class B tops out at 12,000' msl. Since there is no speed limit in class B airspace per se, this would be one class B area where there is no 250 KIAS restriction, at least within that portion of the airspace at or above 10,000' msl. The class Bs that top out at 10,000' msl have the restriction in place by virtue of the 250 KIAS below 10,000' msl rule. (Houston experiment aside)

Good call mini!

Best,

 

[rballty]

I believe there is a max airspeed of .83 Mach in RVSM airspace, from FL290 to FL410.

 

[minitour]

So...is it the "Class B" that's designated for an airport, or is it the "airspace underlying" that's designated for an airport?

Class B Airspace Designated for an Airport (ie the "ORD Class B" is set up for ORD). If you are under the shelf of the Class B airspace you're limited to 200KIAS.

Class B Airspace is set up for the busiest airports (one of the most restrictive airspaces) so ATC doesn't have to worry about the bugsmasher going through when they don't want 'em there, etc. So it is airspace designated for an airport (the ORD class B is set up for ORD).

-mini

 

[rtmcfi]

I believe there is a max airspeed of .83 Mach in RVSM airspace, from FL290 to FL410.

First time I have heard that one..... I think you should examine your beliefs!

 

[MauleSkinner]

Class B Airspace Designated for an Airport (ie the "ORD Class B" is set up for ORD). If you are under the shelf of the Class B airspace you're limited to 200KIAS.

Class B Airspace is set up for the busiest airports (one of the most restrictive airspaces) so ATC doesn't have to worry about the bugsmasher going through when they don't want 'em there, etc. So it is airspace designated for an airport (the ORD class B is set up for ORD).

-mini

Why do they have to say "designated for an airport"? Seems pretty redundant, since Class B is ONLY designated for an airport.

And why, then, don't they reference Class C or Class D that's "designated for an airport"? These simply say in Class C or D airspace within 4 miles of the primary airport.

Fly safe!

David