Airnet or Airlines?

[Princedietrich]

What my esteemed colleauge and fellow starchecker meant to say was.....

um.....

well, actually, it confused me too. I think I'll go grab a beer.

 

[bertengineer]

Qol?

But you've got job security and better QOL over the regionals. .

If you are single , Go to Airnet, If you are married...Think twice.

 

[Guillotine007]

This is another Airnet pilot posting on Guillotine's account (he made me say that). The way I have approached flying here so far is with the idea that I am going to get as many quality hours as I can now, while I am still young and able to handle the night schedule. I love the company, the people we work with are fun - pretty much like a big fraternity (without the forced man-love). Alot of it has to do with personality and personal limits, too. Personally, I find myself eager to see what I can handle, what the plane can handle, etc...within legal limits, of course. I have hand flown a 800RVR approach(part 91 leg), flown through the flashing red on the radar, and carried more ice than I would have ever thought possible. However, I try to be smart about it every night by being overly prepared and always having outs. I love being able to go from shutdown to wheels up at IND in less than 4 minutes, while hearing the airline guys asking for permission to have their plane pushed back from the gate.

But as Jesus said - "Different strokes for different folks".

I have much respect for all airline pilots, regional or mainline. Through the jumpseating I have done I have seen that you guys seem to have alot of the same fun we do(especially Southwest Guys), only under different circumstances. And we all have friends that fly on both sides, so hopefully the "rivalry" continues to be friendly!

Anyways, Guillotine just brought in my McDonalds - see ya!

StarCheck321

 

[Tram]

I think AirNet sounds like a pretty sweet place to work.

 

[freemind270]

"flown through the flashing red on the radar "



-----------------another cowboy thinking he has grown some hair on his chest, honestly why would you do something so stupid . look i flew there for a year but i did not do things like that , do you even think of how many yahoos before you have flown that plane in crap like that .

dude take care man , and take care of the people who are going to fly that plane after you.

 

[EatSleepFly]

He probably just had the tilt down too far and was painting ground.

Seriously though, guys that brag about that $hit give freight pilots a bad rep. that just isn't the norm. Flying in a lot of crap weather routinely is normal, no doubt, but flying through "flashing red" type precip. is just flat out stupid.

It takes either a dumbass or a coward to fly through "flashing red."

Grow a pair of balls and tell dispatch to shove it up their ass if it's so bad there's no "holes" or a way around it. Personally, I rather enjoy doing that when necessary... and hopefully that enjoyment will have the side effect of keeping me alive.

Fly safe!

 

[Art Vandalay]

removed

 

[Onlyflyfreight]

Dispatch and/or the training department will back up good sound judgement.
They might be a little sour because it screws up their day too, but they are just as interested to keep you and the airplane intact..... so they can fly you and the airplane again tomorrow.

I've flown here 4 1/2 years now and I sure as hell have never flown into any red and I'm not planing on ever doing so.

 

[FastestPA31Ever]

Ok, maybe that did come out the wrong way. And I certainly wasn't trying to brag. You really can't post anything on here without getting torn apart, can you? It was probably only flashing red because I tilted it way down to see the trippy colors on a boring vfr night. But calling me an idiot and a cowboy? I have never done anything that I thought was dangerous or would screw a plane for someone else.

Well, I am going to head to Midway, if I can see through my tears and shame.

And my account name is a joke, for those just waiting to come back with "your Chieftain isn't faster than my Lear 35/CRJ700/C208."

Hope to stay in the good graces of the board,
See ya

 

[Kaman]

Starcheck 321,
Not flaming you here, but I'm kinda curious where you shot an approach and landed when the RVR was reporting 800. Did I read that correctly? I'm curious if that was what your "flight visibilty" and if the tower was open when you pulled that stunt.
I also did some d^&bS$%T as a freight pilot, but nothing that would have got me violated. You are smart enough to know that part 91 is absolutely meaningless when it comes to landing after an instrument approach. Pushing the limits in the manner that you have admitted to doesn't necessarily elicit respect, but more like reflection of when I did stupid things in an airplane...So, again no flames, but think twice before you feel like you need to "push it" for absolutely notihng but bragging rights at the crashpad.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead that has lost more friends in aircraft than I care to admit

 

[Sgt. Hartman]

Starcheck 321,
Not flaming you here, but I'm kinda curious where you shot an approach and landed when the RVR was reporting 800. Did I read that correctly? I'm curious if that was what your "flight visibilty" and if the tower was open when you pulled that stunt.
I also did some d^&bS$%T as a freight pilot, but nothing that would have got me violated. You are smart enough to know that part 91 is absolutely meaningless when it comes to landing after an instrument approach. Pushing the limits in the manner that you have admitted to doesn't necessarily elicit respect, but more like reflection of when I did stupid things in an airplane...So, again no flames, but think twice before you feel like you need to "push it" for absolutely notihng but bragging rights at the crashpad.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead that has lost more friends in aircraft than I care to admit

I understand your intent may not be to flame but I do detect a slight demeaning tone in your reply with comments like "when you pulled that stunt" and "at least you are smart enough to know". With your boundless experience sir, I'm sure you know that what the transmissometer says is not always 100% correct. I know 321 and I am sure that he would do nothing to put himself, his certificate, or the airplane at risk. I am also one to believe that I nor anyone else has the right to question another pilot's descision unless I am also sitting in the front seat.

Sgt.

 

[starcheckdriver]

This flashing red stuff is a bunch of crap. All the radars I have seen at Airnet only flash the magenta. Any pilot who flies through a radar shadow or anything flashing at them is just plain dumb.

 

[Kaman]

Sarge,
My experience isn't boundless, but I've been flying either military or civilian for over 25 years. Including 4000 hours in Naval helicopters in the very demanding and not-so-forgiving "blue water operations" and "green ink" time. I was not demeaning, in fact I eluded to the fact that I did some real "delta sierras" as a 135 cargo guy myself. So, what I say stands.
I've actually flown AirNet routes carrying AirNet crap, so I can say that commencing an approach with a reported RVR of 800' is not only stupid, but landing if the visibility is below landing is STILL illegal. I don't give a hoot what the xmissiometer says. Nor will an FAA inspector. So, if this young man wants to demonstrate his total lack of judgement, lack of flight discipline, lack of maturity...Well, I hope that someone of a higher power watches over him. Because I have seen it happen before and I know it will again. Those types wind up...DEAD

 

[milehigh6080]

And my account name is a joke, for those just waiting to come back with "your Chieftain isn't faster than my Lear 35/CRJ700/C208."

Man, I really hope your Chieftain is faster than my C208. I get passed by birds in climb and cruise. None of the other airnet props can hang with the van on an approach though.

 

[FastestPA31Ever]

Yea

Yea, I have a feeling that no matter what the visibility calls it is always a little higher - or much higher. Certainly no impressive feat when you have Cat III lighting like Indy does. Anyways, I was thinking about my post and the response it got, and I was wondering...to those who have recently transitioned to a regional jet - how much different/better is the radar system in the glass cockpit than the Bendix models that alot of the 20ish year old props we fly have? Is it basically all the same info, just more precise, or is it a whole different ballgame?

321

 

[FastestPA31Ever]

Sorry, one more question, being as it's 5 in the morning...Kaman, did you fly the K-Max?

 

[dashflyer]

Not to bring this thread back onto the topic or anything.............

Airnet or Airlines?

Airnet would be my first choice, but then I'm biased since I used to work there. However the other side of the coin is seniority. If you get hired a regional now, your seniority would be better if you got hired now.

That said, there are too many pilots coming out of flight schools who have filled in the proper boxes in order to obtain their licenses and ratings. There's nothing wrong with that. Thats the way training has become these days. Cost is a big driver of that.

However, once you have the certificates you need the experience. It used to be a big Catch-22. How can I get a flying job to get experience if I don't have the hours? Like all of aviation it's a right-place, right-time deal.

Airnet provides the experience. As you can see some people have chosen to push limits within themselves and the airplane. That is experience. I'm not saying whether it is smart or not, but the more experience you have the easier it becomes to use that experience to apply judgement.

I've seen too many new-hires who will fly blindly into a bad situation where a more experienced pilot would do a 180. It's not because the new-hire wasn't smart, but because they had never been in a situation like that before and they wanted to see what would happen.

The question becomes, can you teach experience and judgement? Probably. Would you rather learn it on your own flying freight for Airnet, or would you rather take a chance learning in the limited simulator training provided by a regional airline, to be thrown out into the 121 environment flying passengers around?

 

[CF34-3B1]

One other thing to think about that hasn't been mentioned yet is the nonrev travel you get at a regional.

Not sure what the 135 freight indistury has, but most regionals are affiliated with at least 1 global network carrier.

In the past year or so, I or my family have been to Germany, Rome, St Thomas, Hawaii (twice) and lots of domestic spots.

I know a lot of junior FOs who spend more time non reving than I do.

See the world while you're young and single kinda thing.

Just something to add to the equation when making your decision.

 

[Kaman]

321,
No, I didn't fly the K-Max...I flew in the SH-2F "Seasprite" although you'll rarely hear it referred to as such. They were operated off of "small boys" (FFs, DDs, etc...) to conduct ASW/ASST missions. The Navy decommisioned the last of the fleet HSL squadrons in the early 90s.
As far as RADARs are concerned, I flew a Seneca II that had an older Bendix monochrome that worked very well. After moving onto the Beech we had a Collins color wx set that worked pretty well, but I prefer the older monochrome myself. I operated an old 1950ish LN-66HP "Tuna Boat" RADAR in the SH-2F, so I grew accustomed to that type of presentation. I have really benefited from my previous life as a "sub chaser" operating various avionics/sensor sytems and has made adjusting to the CL-65 a little easier. Same idea, just differnent menus, but a CDU is a CDU.
Personally, I had more fun flying freight than doing the airline thing. But there was no way I could have done that long-term. We are all trying to make a living and enjoy what time off that we have. Those of you that haven't yet done the 121 thing will quickly realize that FAA oversight is MUCH more intense than 135, especially cargo. So, not alot of room for the "Cowboy Way"...Not to say that we didn't do a "little" of that in the Mighty Beech 1900...Might not look like much, but it's a helluva good airplane.

Regards,
ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[ricketmt]

Do Both-if You Have To

To the original poster,

I worked at Airnet for a little while. I liked the job. I had a 13 hr duty day and worked 5 days a week, on a run that started at 11:30 am till 1am in the morning or later most nights. I was making nearly $38,000. I learned a great deal and the experience made me a better pilot.

But-I would never choose that job again. There is something to be said for the adventure of it, but it is a dangerous job no if and's or buts. It will also burn you out. You have no time to socialize, get home, and you will have to move for this job. By the time you are done with a five day run you are just recovering on the weekend.

I now work at CHQ. I live where I'm based. I choose reserve to get the days off that I want and have great QOL. I did take a large paycut (for now), but I earned every penny at Airnet and probably a few more. Don't chase the money, do what comes natural to you and the rest will follow. Airnet is a great company, but it is not for everyone. I do miss the freedom of my own little "ship", and a few other things, but I am much happier with my current job.

As for Airnet and its training contract. Don't worry about it. It is uninforable. If you don't like a job just move on, you won't hurt their feelings that is business, and just have them try and come after you. I had them forward all correspondance to a lawyer and never heard a word from them about the contract.

I'm not saying that is right or wrong but I had to leave. I was not happy with the job and found a way out. So the moral of my post, do what makes you happy. If you are young and single and low time, Airnet is great. If you have family obligations like me, maybe its not the right choice.

 

[starcheckdriver]

To the original poster,

I worked at Airnet for a little while. I liked the job. I had a 13 hr duty day and worked 5 days a week, on a run that started at 11:30 am till 1am in the morning or later most nights. I was making nearly $38,000. I learned a great deal and the experience made me a better pilot.

But-I would never choose that job again. There is something to be said for the adventure of it, but it is a dangerous job no if and's or buts. It will also burn you out. You have no time to socialize, get home, and you will have to move for this job. By the time you are done with a five day run you are just recovering on the weekend.

I now work at CHQ. I live where I'm based. I choose reserve to get the days off that I want and have great QOL. I did take a large paycut (for now), but I earned every penny at Airnet and probably a few more. Don't chase the money, do what comes natural to you and the rest will follow. Airnet is a great company, but it is not for everyone. I do miss the freedom of my own little "ship", and a few other things, but I am much happier with my current job.

As for Airnet and its training contract. Don't worry about it. It is uninforable. If you don't like a job just move on, you won't hurt their feelings that is business, and just have them try and come after you. I had them forward all correspondance to a lawyer and never heard a word from them about the contract.

I'm not saying that is right or wrong but I had to leave. I was not happy with the job and found a way out. So the moral of my post, do what makes you happy. If you are young and single and low time, Airnet is great. If you have family obligations like me, maybe its not the right choice.

A few things here that make me upset reading this. And yes, I work with Airnet. No, I do not work with HR or Pilot Recruitment. But, I like Airnet and cannot stand when I hear people making statements that misrepresent the comapny or what we do.

First of all, the job we do at Airnet is in no way dangerous or unsafe. Not once did I ever feel my life, aircraft or feeling of safety was in jeopardy. I want examples about how anyone can claim this as being dangerous. Sure, we will fly an 1800 RVR approach down to the minimums. Sure, we will attempt a landing beyond the max demonstarted crosswind component for the plane. Sure we will dodge thunderstorms to get to the destination. But, the 121 boys/gals to the same thing day after day and no one claims they are dangerous. 135 has nearly the same regulations that 121 does. We are in no way a dangerous company and in fact, we have an impecable safety record from the last 30 years.

As far as the training agreement....don't come here if you cannot serve a year. A year is really not a long time in the grand scheme of things. By the way, CHQ has a two-year training agreement and I am surprised that their HR department would consider a pilot who bailed on another agreement. Airnet, CHQ and any other company with a training agreement has them to keep down training costs. If you sign for a year, commit to a year. And for those bashing the freight companies....just stop! I can only speak for Airnet and I can honestly, 100% say, we are not dangerous!

 

[ricketmt]

Airnet is Safe

The company is safe. The job is dangerous. To think otherwise is stupid.
Personal example. Most of the planes I flew had no radar. I was struck by lighting once, no serious damage but the plane was done for the day (radome cracked). Everytime you fly all day in the clouds with no wx radar is a bit hairy. No autopilots in my planes either, not dangerous, just added to fatigue and decreased margins of safety on long hard days. Extreme windshear on final approach during approach of a thunderstorm. Etc... Etc... Most of you at Airnet are to cool to admit to have ever been scared but one of my the guys at my base had an experience that scares me just thinking of it. Fire in the cockpit (electrical) at night, in IMC. Lost electric and was thankfully able to get under cloud deck and make a landing before all went too bad. Another friend had an engine failure, not as scary but these things do happen. Bad things do happen to good pilots, no matter how safe you play it, even if you are not punching through the flashing red.

As for training contracts they are crap. If you are a good company you will get and retain good people, which Airnet does. Those that want to stay do so. Those that don't leave. They don't need the training contract they just need to hire the right people and not blow smoke up your ass in the interview.

I was in no way bashing Airnet. It is a good company and a good choice for a good many guys, just not me and I was not afraid to move on. I believe Airnet will be around for awhile, but it is not growing and the only way that you all are moving up is do to others moving on.

Hmm

 

[starcheckdriver]

The company is safe. The job is dangerous. To think otherwise is stupid.
Personal example. Most of the planes I flew had no radar. I was struck by lighting once, no serious damage but the plane was done for the day (radome cracked). Everytime you fly all day in the clouds with no wx radar is a bit hairy. No autopilots in my planes either, not dangerous, just added to fatigue and decreased margins of safety on long hard days. Extreme windshear on final approach during approach of a thunderstorm. Etc... Etc... Most of you at Airnet are to cool to admit to have ever been scared but one of my the guys at my base had an experience that scares me just thinking of it. Fire in the cockpit (electrical) at night, in IMC. Lost electric and was thankfully able to get under cloud deck and make a landing before all went too bad. Another friend had an engine failure, not as scary but these things do happen. Bad things do happen to good pilots, no matter how safe you play it, even if you are not punching through the flashing red.

As for training contracts they are crap. If you are a good company you will get and retain good people, which Airnet does. Those that want to stay do so. Those that don't leave. They don't need the training contract they just need to hire the right people and not blow smoke up your ass in the interview.

I was in no way bashing Airnet. It is a good company and a good choice for a good many guys, just not me and I was not afraid to move on. I believe Airnet will be around for awhile, but it is not growing and the only way that you all are moving up is do to others moving on.

Hmm

Flying without radar is not dangerous. I flew over 1000 hours as a flight instructor, in the clouds as a CFI-I with no radar. Never once did I feel it was dangerous. What I did was check the radar before departing, use Flight Watch and FSS along the way and always made a successful flight with minimal turbulence. I still do the same at Airnet when I don't have radar.

Landing in extreme windshear?! You are an idiot if you did that. In my last 14 months at Airnet I have diverted three or four times due to windshear and no one has questioned me or pressured me otherwise. In addition to those diversions, I have enetered holding patterns and waited for the storm to pass. If you conduct your flights in a dangerous manner, it is no one else's fault but yours.

As far as ever being scared....I have never been scared at Airnet. I have not had any terrible emergencies and I count my blessings everyday for that. I have had gear problems and nearly had an engine failure, but is an engine failure really a scary, dangerous event?! There have been times when I was flying in icing conditions that I was concerned about continuing the flight, but I always paid close attention to my surrounding environment and always escaped the conditions before it got to the point of scaring me. Airnet and the job itself are not scary unless you make stupid decisions. If you treat it like any other flying job and realize that you are PIC and no one can help you, the job is safe and it is fun.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

EXACTLY.... You are the PIC; make decisions like a PIC. If the weather is bad at the field, go hold at a near-by fix. To continue an approach with known windshear in excess is stupid and unsafe. From your stories I can tell you flew 310s out of BHM. Thats the South East buddy. I was there in the South for a year and a half and let me tell you I learned a lot about radar use and thunderstorms. Probably the same experience that you are using today with CHQ; which is great. Its probably good that you will be a Co-pilot for a little longer so you can learn more so next time you're the PIC you aren't lacking in confidence. And you'll have 5 shiny glass screens to show you everything thats going on.

Now back to the topic of AirNet and Airlines. If FedEx projections of 400 pilots per year for the next few years, UPS with 250 pilots, JetBlue 250-300, Southwest 250-300 and Continental wanting 850 pilots by 2008.. i'd say the 30 or so pilots that want to leave AirNet will have a shot. I'm sure some of us lowly 135 pigs will make it to somewhere of the above mentioned. In the past we have had PICs leave for sweet 91 or 135 corporate companies also. So not all of us working at AirNet have dreams of the Big Iron.

Right now its still a choosers market. They have thousands of furloughed pilots with 121 time and experience in types that they fly. There are also the PICs from the regionals that have been sitting in the left seat for 4 years or so waiting for things to rebound from 9-11.

In conclusion (sounds like a term paper!) if you come to AirNet for the one year or stay for 5+ years to get your time, you will enjoy your stay here. If you're not having fun here, then this place is just not for you... Its all what you make of your stay!

(Reaching in my fridge for a cold one....) Cheers

 

[Princedietrich]

As much as I'd like to jump in here, I won't.


I will however say this. The training agreement is there because of the trend that can be seen in the youngsters of today in that they have a degraded sense of accountability. It used to be that the one year commitment was nothing more than a gentleman's agreement with a handshake. Those were the days when people would come in to get all of the baron/aerostar/whatever training for free and then bail out within a month or two. I even heard a story about a Jetride pilot (back when it was still in its infancy as opposed to the toddlerhood of today) who hired on, got the free Learjet type rating, and resigned after THREE WEEKS! I kid you not, THREE WEEKS! It costs money to train these pilots, and for all of those who say that training agreements are a joke, consider this. How would YOU like it if you hired me for a job and paid over $7k to train me for it only to see me bail out on you after 2 months with not so much as a second thought?

My point exactly. Now someone gimme a beer.

 

[wings421]

HazMat-

How's the Turbine PIC coming?

 

[HAZ-MAT]

How's the Turbine PIC coming?

Wings421

Good buddy! Hows things with you? I see in your profile you're on the 140. Is that in STL? If so, thats great! Take care and keep in touch.

 

[wings421]

Yep, the 140's are in STL. Lots of time off! LOVE working days again. Things are going great, but miss the flying at AirNet time to time.

 

[USC328]

Wings 421,

Glad to hear your enjoying regionals and the day schedule. I finally made the jump after 7 months on the jet. I'm in SLC finishing my last 2 days with AirNet flying our newly positioned SLC based run. I start groundschool with SkyWest Thursday morning. Maybe I'll see ya around.

Purvis

 

[wings421]

328,

Sounds like a good move for you. Time off in Colorado. Gotta like that! Did you ever go 8/6 at AirNet or did you take a run out of APA? Good luck in training and enjoy flying in the daytime. Hope to see you around.