Airlines Vs Fractional

[rajflyboy]

"Gunfyter Writes"


"We are already better off than all the other fractionals.
This "truck and baker union" negotiated starting pay for the BBJ at 135K going up over 200K. I think thats better than a United 737 Captain makes. A lot better. Its better pay than Southwest.

We are Better off than ALL the Regional airlines... though they be represented by ALPA. I would have loved to be represented by ALPA... but they were never interested in us."



1st >> who cares about BBJ pay >> only a very small group of Pilots gets to fly it! As a whole it doesn't affect the pilot group!

2nd "Better Off Than All Other Fractional" >> Maybe for now >> but Flight Ops has around 220 Airplanes and growing >> Last I checked Netjets actually has 10 fewer airplanes this year than last! From 360 Down to 350! Another 130 Airplanes and Options is right there with Netjets! With many owners 5 year contracts coming due >> We certainly need to keep focused on Customer
Satisfaction and Try to keep each and every person happy! We are not unbeatable! We must not lose sight of the Service side of our business no matter how bad the Union and or Management is working us over with the Contract! A we are the best "Attitude" could easily ruin the place in a heartbeat! Business 101 >> Upset 1 customer and they tell 10 people about it >> then they each tell 10 and then before you know it we end up losing customers!


3rd "We are Better off than ALL the Regional airlines"

With a Regional Airline you have a Schedule >> The Regionals are making money right now and they are the wave of the future in the airlines with the RJ's! An RJ is more of an airplane (Better Equipment) than anything in the corporate world with a few exceptions. Captains can make 60 to 80 thousand too and sometimes more!

I guess if you never worked for an Airline >> You wouldn't understand how nice it is to have a schedule >> and you wouldn't realize that you are not micromanaged in the cockpits at Airlines either and when your senior you only work 12 or 14 days a month and are sometimes able to bid some day trips too! And no call outs at 2 or 3 AM either! Airlines aren't such a bad deal for Pilots >> even now after 9/11. You just need to work magic with your crystal ball and pick the right one to get on with!

Coming from the Military to a Fractional Is like going from the Outhouse to the Penthouse >> but once you get a Taste of Airline Flying >> You Won't want to go back to Corporate or Fractional! I could see why Military pilots love the life >> real food >> No MRE's>> hotel rooms >> use of Phones >> all the good stuff >> Believe it or not >> Airlines are even better most of the time!

Sleeping on a cot in the Desert with the military and then sleeping in a Hilton and Getting Hilton points will easily cloud your mind >> Don't knock the airline stuff if you haven't tried it!

Gunfyter >> I guarantee you would Love it if You worked for an Airline!!! And you wouldn't look back at flying Corporate Aircraft!

 

[Heavy Set]

Not if you get to fly a Citation X at 0.92 mach at FL510 on your way to Aspen... I have had enough of Detroit and ORD to last a lifetime...

 

[rajflyboy]

I could Understand that too!

 

[xrated]

You better have JATO bottles attached to the X to make it go .92 at FL510.

 

[Lrjet55]

I am sure that the ariline lifestyle is better than the Fractional. I havent done it yet but knowing when you are working, sleeping, eating and going home must be real nice.
But lets face it, this is the Fractional portion of the board and for what its worth were all stuck at a fractional for now. NJA sucks for pay in the worst way but what can we do. Were union and hopefully it will get done soon.

So lets just drop which fractional is better than the other. For what its worth they are all **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** jobs until we are paid a livable wage.

 

[rajflyboy]

Very True Lrjet 55!

I hate to see someone pick on Airline Flying >> when they have never tried it >> gotta give em some grief abou it! LOL

 

[Lrjet55]

I've never done it so its my nemesis. Corporate... been there, done that.
I can understand guys like gunfyter becasue from time to time I am like that myself. You see, all of us at a fractional are part of something special. Yes, I know it corny but look at it from our perspective. Everything we are doing is new. None of this has been done before. We are a brand new sector of the aviation industry. Many predict that our industry could be the next "airline job" provided certain aspects including pay and benefits change.

We as NJA, Flex, Options, etc. pilots stand to gain a great deal from this "industry leading" contract NJA is promising us. Its quite an exciting time. Its also very frustrating. I know I hate the questions "what airline do you work for?" or having other airline pilots look down on me for how much money I make. For what I and the rest of the fractional pilots do its truly embarrasing.

If this contract comes out and includes the items we expect it to you can believe we will all be walking through the terminals and fbo's across this country with our heads held high. Not because we are arrogant but because we accomplished something truly special. We will have set a precedent for all other fractionals to follow. We will have made fractional flying a legitamate career and a future for many up and coming pilots.

There will always be the nay sayers who will argue my point and that is fine. We're all entitled to our opinions. But I know for myself I will have finally reached a goal and be proud of what I do.

 

[rajflyboy]

I don't think being a good pilot has much to do with the Wages we make! Just because one guy fly's a Lear and Another Fly's a Boeing doesn't make much difference either! Only thing that matters is that your Happy with your job! Who cares what anyone else thinks!

It doesn't look too good for the Contract at NJA unfortunately! RTS is playing the Union Like Fools >> it could easily be another 2 or 3 years or even more at the rate they are going before we will see something to vote on>> union doesn't seem to push for dates to work this contract out. Frustrating to say the least for the other 1800 pilots in this company! And a "Strike" isn't going to help much either >> it will just cost us customers and hurt our business in other ways! We will lose folks to Flex and Options, etc. if a strike rolls around (no doubt about it). We need to be careful when it comes down to the End Game >> which is years away anyhow!

The Union needs to treat us like adults and start giving out information >> they don't seem to realize how much support they are losing with these lousy MEC messages and the pure lack of information! We are adults and we can handle having more information at our hands! Hand out some more information and support will grow quickly!

As far as Salaries >> People need to look at the Pro Pilot Magazine Salary Guide to see what kind of Salaries are actually being paid for a particular aircraft! This is the only guide that I have found with this info! I'm sure Santulli knows all this info >> We need to educate ourselves as well! The Pro Pilot #'s are as accurate as you can find!

 

[x402]

And a "Strike" isn't going to help much either >> it will just cost us customers and hurt our business in other ways! We will lose folks to Flex and Options, etc. if a strike rolls around (no doubt about it). We need to be careful when it comes down to the End Game >> which is years away anyhow!


Sorry, but the sooner we get to this point the sooner it's over. RTS doesn't have to move off the dime until he's pushed. We won't lose owners because this will be one of the shortest strikes in history. The MEC knows this and for the life of me I cannot understand why they haven't driven this home. Too many of us are twisting in the wind with no end in sight. Find a way to call impasse and then it's thirty days until we have our contract . Buffet will not let this place shut down. My 2 cents.

 

[NJA Capt]

Last I checked Netjets actually has 10 fewer airplanes this year than last! From 360 Down to 350!

Where did this info come from? NJA's fleet has not been reduced. and is in fact still growing. EJM's fleet was cut by 10 a/c, but not NJA's. EJM also added more than 10 managed a/c over the last year so there is probably no decrease in total fleet size either way.

For what it's worth, I was very shocked and sad about the layoffs of the 40 LUK floaters. You guys were great.