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Airlines Must Let Paxs Off Stuck Planes

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CaptJax

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Posts
310
Feds: Airlines Must Let Fliers Off Stuck Planes

WASHINGTON (Dec. 21) -The Transportation Department, responding to tarmac horror stories, orders airlines on Monday to let passengers stuck in stranded airplanes to deplane after three hours.

With its new regulations, the Obama administration is sending an unequivocal message to airlines that it won't tolerate the delays experienced by some passengers, such as an overnight ordeal in Rochester, Minn., last summer.

Under the new regulations, airlines operating domestic flights will be able only to keep passengers on board for three hours before they must be allowed to disembark a delayed flight. The regulation provides exceptions only for safety or security or if air traffic control advises the pilot in command that returning to the terminal would disrupt airport operations.

U.S. carriers operating international flights departing from or arriving in the United States must specify, in advance, their own time limits for deplaning passengers.

Airlines will be required to provide food and water for passengers within two hours of a plane being delayed on a tarmac, and to maintain operable lavatories. They must also provide passengers with medical attention when necessary.

From January to June this year, 613 planes were delayed on tarmacs for more than three hours, their passengers kept on board.

Airlines will also be prohibited from scheduling chronically delayed flights. Carriers who fail to comply could face government enforcement action for using unfair or deceptive trade practices.

The new regulations, which were published Monday in the Federal Register, go into effect in 120 days.

"Airline passengers have rights, and these new rules will require airlines to live up to their obligation to treat their customers fairly," Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said in a statement.

Airlines have strongly opposed a hard time limit on tarmac strandings. They say forcing planes to return to gates so that passengers can get off could cause more problems than it cures. They predict more flights will be canceled, further delaying passengers from reaching their destinations.

Last month, the department fined Continental Airlines, ExpressJet Airlines and Mesaba Airlines $175,000 for their roles in a nearly six-hour tarmac delay in Rochester, Minn. On Aug. 8, Continental Express Flight 2816 en route to Minneapolis was diverted to Rochester due to thunderstorms. Forty-seven passengers were kept overnight in a cramped plane amid crying babies and a smelly toilet because Mesaba employees refused to open a gate so that they could enter the closed airport terminal.

The case marked the first time the department had fined an airline for actions involving a tarmac delay. Transportation officials made clear the case was a warning to the industry.

Consumer advocates have been pressing the department and Congress for at least a decade to do something extended tarmac delays. However, past efforts to address the problem have fizzled in the face of industry opposition and promises to reform.
 
Here we go again.
 
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I want off!!!!! Its been 3 hours and 1 minute, take me to the terminal a man yells. The person sitting next to him says no....my father is dying and I have to go......Captain says sorry your not going to make it, the Obama administration says that I am not being fair to this man next to you...I have delayed him too much. Back to the terminal we go, we are canceled and too bad for you.
 
Ladies and gentleman the Obama administration says after 3 hours on the Tarmac we need to go back. Once we get back to the terminal my F/O and I will pull ourselves from the flight due to duties hours’ limitation. So a new fresh crew will be coming from home, enjoy the next 3 hours of airport quality appreciation. Thank You :smash:
 
Agreed. Smart thing to do . You guys who are running up against your FAA duty limits are a hell of a lot scarier than this regulation.
 
Costs will go up because of this little gem. Question is: Who's gonna pay for it?
 
Looks like our government actually did something that makes sense.


J3

How the hell does it make sense to have a hard limit? If we sit in line at LGA for 3:55 and are number 3 for T.O., we now have to turn around!?!?

F-these morons in D.C.! Every time they do anything, they screw it all up worse!
 
"Ladies and gentlemen, we are currently number 2 for takeoff, however, since we're nearing our 3 hour limit, I will be required to taxi back to the gate and deplane you folks--"

And the best part of this regulation is if you have to wait for a gate for more than three hours, I have to find a way to get you off the plane--- hmmm, that'll be interesting since we don't have a gate for you folks...

Up to $27000 fine for each passenger-- thats just over $4 million bucks/ full A-320-- I think that was our profit for one of our quarters...

Oh, but if you're a foreign carrier-- this rule doesn't apply (Royal Air Moroc had passengers on their aircraft for 16 hours during our Valentine's day massacre, but you don't hear much about that).
 
Gmafb It doesnt begin for four months. Ie after winter- so shouldnt even be an issue for a whole year. Nicely played.

What a joke. It doesnt mean crap. Airlines run lean. Its cheaper to run lean and accept the 1-4 times per year wx messes up the operation
 
3 hours guys. How many times this year did you sit on the ramp with passengers for over 3 hours?

What does this really have to do with the Obama administration.. You Hannity and Rush d**chebags apparently forgot too soon what your cowboy did (or didn't do) prior to this. At least the problem was acknowledged.

Costs will not go up because 4 hours on the taxiway isn't a daily occurrence. And if I were on a flight and it's been 3 hours with no end in sight, I'd sure as hell want to get off, too. Especially if I'm in the back of an RJ.
 
anyone think this will trigger revised staffing levels at current carriers??...extra crews will need to be available every winter, summer afternoons, and lga in general...
 
Dont forget Aero mexico early this year.

Passengers endure 16-hour ordeal on flight from Mexico
By Lynne Terry, The Oregonian
January 22, 2009, 11:04AM
Dozens of angry passengers were cooped up for 16 hours in an Aero Mexico plane, after their flight was diverted from Seattle to Portland International Airport.

Flight 670 arrived at PDX about 7:40 p.m. on Tuesday and then sat at a gate for more than four hours after being turned away from Sea-Tac Airport because of heavy fog, said Kama Simonds, spokeswoman for the Port of Portland, which runs PDX
 
Fine with me. If they want to get out on ramp or taxiway and hike through the snow back to the terminal while the rest of us wait for an empty gate, I don't mind. Special Xmas bonus: when one of them gets sucked into an engine, the pink mist will be festive.
 
Tell you what, I'm surprised that more passengers don't self-exit the aircraft after 12-16 hour sits.

What's worse? 12-16+ hours trapped in an airplane with no facilities or arrested, taken to a facility with food and working bathrooms, making bail in 3-4 hours, then claiming "kidnapping" (and that HAS stuck so far in court), suing the airline BACK, getting the criminal charges dropped, and getting a nice settlement out of it.

Like I said, surprised it hasn't happened more often. This is probably a smarter move to stave off some self-exit maneuver happening in the future as people get less and less tolerant of these types of delays.
 
3 hours guys. How many times this year did you sit on the ramp with passengers for over 3 hours?

What does this really have to do with the Obama administration.. You Hannity and Rush d**chebags apparently forgot too soon what your cowboy did (or didn't do) prior to this. At least the problem was acknowledged.

Costs will not go up because 4 hours on the taxiway isn't a daily occurrence. And if I were on a flight and it's been 3 hours with no end in sight, I'd sure as hell want to get off, too. Especially if I'm in the back of an RJ.

What does it have to do with the Obama administration? Really? Read a paper lately? Who the heck do you think is in charge?

-You damn sure will know who the hell is in charge when you get stuck paying the new taxes this idiot has come up with for everything! Healthcare surcharge, marriage surcharge, windfall profit surcharge, and blah, and blah, and blah..... You are really gonna have to save up for some rims-son.

-Under these ******************************s, the only line of work that pays well will be crack 'ho.
-Now 'dat be some "truthiness!"

P.S.-Is there anyone on this board who has flown in/out of major hub airports and NOT had a 4 or 5 hour wait? Anyone here who has NOT been number two in line at 3:55? Where the hell have YOU been-at some "Hope&Change" "Hammer&Sickle" rally?
 
Diversions?

Does this apply to diversions as well? I've spent over 20 years on the Dispatch/Ramp/Ops side of the equation, and I'd like the bureaucrats to explain to me how we handle 7 diversions within 30 minutes' time (easily dropping SEVERAL HUNDRED unexpected "guests" in our laps, when PHL or LGA or BWI or some other large hub has problems) with only 2 gates, 3 gate agents, and maybe 4 rampers.
Not only must we keep our gates free for our normally scheduled arrivals and departures, but when ATC is dangling the "ground stop may be lifted in 45 minutes" carrot in front of everyone, there's barely time to deplane ONE aircraft, let alone several. Then imagine the gate agents making multiple announcements to reassemble a couple of hundred wandering pax scattered throughout the terminal back to reboard several different aircraft when ATC suddenly gives us a 15 minute window to get the flights airborne again. The rampers are also kept busy with requests for lav service, cases of water, running release paperwork to the proper aircraft, coordinating fueling, etc. Meanwhile, various pax on each aircraft are using their cell phones to reserve rental cars inside the terminal, and then demand to be let off individually, and expecting someone to dig out their luggage (yeah, riiiiight). Others call the customer help desk to complain that they are being "falsely imprisoned", so then we get a call to let us know somebody out on our ramp is unhappy and that we need to do something about it. Then there's the diabetic pax who packed their medication in a checked bag (not their carry-on), and the lady with a little dog that has to pee but must have GRASS to pee on, not concrete.....and on it goes.
And how do we decide which flight gets to deplane? First come, first served? The plane with the most pax, and therefore the most exposure to governement fines? The one from the west coast whose pax have been on board the longest? The one who complains the loudest? And what if all of these flights (not to mention the scheduled ones that are coming and going in between) need deiced? We don't have an army of rampers to take care of all of this within some government imposed timeframe.
Although I can sympathize with the plight of pax in these situations (and some real situations do seem absurd), I think this is just another example of lawmakers who think they can take dynamic, complex situations that they barely comprehend and slap a few rules on them that do nothing but further hamper those who have to deal with them in real life, so they can then brag about the "swift action" that they took on the part of the poor and oppressed.

P.S. - By the way, this may sound like a rant, but I actually ENJOY days like that! I just don't like bureaucrats trying to tell us how to do our jobs when they have no clue about some of the realities.
 
What does it have to do with the Obama administration? Really? Read a paper lately? Who the heck do you think is in charge?

-You damn sure will know who the hell is in charge when you get stuck paying the new taxes this idiot has come up with for everything! Healthcare surcharge, marriage surcharge, windfall profit surcharge, and blah, and blah, and blah..... You are really gonna have to save up for some rims-son.

-Under these ******************************s, the only line of work that pays well will be crack 'ho.
-Now 'dat be some "truthiness!"

P.S.-Is there anyone on this board who has flown in/out of major hub airports and NOT had a 4 or 5 hour wait? Anyone here who has NOT been number two in line at 3:55? Where the hell have YOU been-at some "Hope&Change" "Hammer&Sickle" rally?

Well, I didn't expect a juvenile response. But anyways, I fly out of ATL, I believe that counts as a major hub. And while, due to an enormous passing storm, I have been stuck on the taxiway for about 2 hours prior to being able to depart, I have never been stuck for 4 or 5 hours once pushed back from the gate. And nowadays, if that does happen, you'll probably hear about it on the news. So no, it's not an everyday occurrence, so don't worry about how your airline will recoup its costs--since you apparently are so concerned with how management is able to line its pockets in the wake of "socialist policies."
 

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