Airlines for America Commends Bipartisan Effort for Answers on Abu Dhabi Agreement

[General Lee]

General,

Try to use your powers of decuctive reasoning instead of spewing the company line.

Why are British Airways, KLM, Lufthansa and Virgin Australia all flying into Abu Dhabi ? Does Lufthansa pick up local passengers and take them onwards to Pakistan ? The answer is no.

You've been baffled again by R.A. and DALPA. There's no money in flying your own passengers.

Virgin Australia is a codeshare partner with Etihad, hence why they go there, not to bring Australians to Abu Dhabi, rather allow connections to Europe that Virgin Australia cannot do themselves. Same with Qantas and Emirates(at Dubai). BA, KLM, and LH don't even fly their biggest planes into Abu Dhabi, they do it to offer some service. Dubai gets the bigger equipment, kinda like DL going to Dubai also.

You see, this thread is about how Abu Dhabi isn't viable to have a US Custom facility there. It makes sense, not enough US traffic to warrant that. Even Dubai only has 2 US airlines that go there (DL/UA). That's just not enough. Sorry, you're still wrong. But, go outside and find some people that for some reason want to go to Abu Dhabi only, not continue onward. It may take awhile.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[dicko]

Virgin Australia is a codeshare partner with Etihad, hence why they go there, not to bring Australians to Abu Dhabi, rather allow connections to Europe that Virgin Australia cannot do themselves. Same with Qantas and Emirates. BA, KLM, and LH don't even fly their biggest planes into Abu Dhabi, they do it to offer some service. Dubai gets the bigger equipment, kinda like DL going to Dubai also.

You see, this thread is about how Abu Dhabi isn't viable to have a US Custom facility there. It makes sense, not enough US traffic to warrant that. Even Dubai only has 2 US airlines that go there (DL/UA). That's just not enough. Sorry, you're still wrong. But, go outside and find some people that for some reason want to go to Abu Dhabi only, not continue onward. It may take awhile.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Ahh. I see you've returned from your ice cream gorging trip to the Orient.

Let me summarize your ever evolving argument as to why Delta won't fly an airplane to Abu Dhabi:

1. Lufthansa, KLM, V Australia and B.A. only fly 777s and A330s there .... so it's not a big deal and there isn't anybody who wants to go there in the U.S.

2. Lufthansa has doubled it's capacity on the route due to a 14% increase in revenue because nobody wants to go there. Lufthansa's flights return to Germany filled with these non existent passengers.

3. All Australians are continuing on to Pakistan from Abu Dhabi. Nobody is actually going to Abu Dhabi.

4. Etihad flies thousands of passengers a week from the U.S. to Abu Dhabi but none of them are actually going there and there is no money in flying people to or through Abu Dhabi.

I surrender General. Nobody goes to Abu Dhabi. There is no money in it. Here's what you're competing with:

http://www.etihad.com/en-au/experience-etihad/on-board/diamond-first-class/

 

[General Lee]

Ahh. I see you've returned from your ice cream gorging trip to the Orient.

Let me summarize your ever evolving argument as to why Delta won't fly an airplane to Abu Dhabi:

1. Lufthansa, KLM, V Australia and B.A. only fly 777s and A330s there .... so it's not a big deal and there isn't anybody who wants to go there in the U.S.

2. Lufthansa has doubled it's capacity on the route due to a 14% increase in revenue because nobody wants to go there. Lufthansa's flights return to Germany filled with these non existent passengers.

3. All Australians are continuing on to Pakistan from Abu Dhabi. Nobody is actually going to Abu Dhabi.

4. Etihad flies thousands of passengers a week from the U.S. to Abu Dhabi but none of them are actually going there and there is no money in flying people to or through Abu Dhabi.

I surrender General. Nobody goes to Abu Dhabi. There is no money in it. Here's what you're competing with:

http://www.etihad.com/en-au/experience-etihad/on-board/diamond-first-class/

Okay, let me get this straight, how many people from the US go there? How many Americans go via the ME to Europe? Answer: very few, if any. How about Americans flying to Asia via Abu Dhabi or anywhere in the ME? Zero.... So, the main group of Americans going through the ME hubs are heading to India and Pakistan, otherwise they are back tracking, and that just doesn't happen.

The ME hubs are a threat to the European airlines, they have to compete because Europeans going to SE Asia, Australia, etc can go through the ME, so BA, LH, KL, AF etc have to throw flights up against the ME carriers to just try to capture any local traffic somehow going to those Sandpits. It's better than yeilding all traffic to them.

Lufthansa flies a 744 to Dubai daily from FRA, while Emirates has 3 777s. To the other gulf cities, Lufthansa has 1 daily A333 to Abu Dhabi nonstop, and another single A333 to Doha that continues onto Bahrain. Did you say they doubled their capacity? I don't think so. They might have had an A380 to DXB, but the cut capacity to a 744. And the A330-300 to the other gulf cities is the smallest widebody they have.

I never said Virgin Australia only connects people in AUH to Pakistan. Nope. They connect onward to Europe, just like Qantas is doing in Dubai with Emirates. They don't want to add planes to fight. Funny thing is, countries in Europe are getting protective, and limiting ME airlines with restrictions. Why? Because the ME airlines have nothing to give back in return. The Sandpit is just that, and only a limited number of people want to go there and stay there each day. Germany and France limit the number of cities they can go to in each country. Canada limits them to 3 flights a week into one city. Austria just told Emirates that they couldn't get anymore extra flights, no A380s to Vienna, and they wouldn't accept the Qantas/Emirates Joint Venture.

There is no doubt Etihad makes some money flying people to or through AUH. But, the are Gov't sponsored, can somehow order $50 billion in new planes(?), and the area has PDA laws that are "interesting." Do you want to go there, with the heat and humidity, and the law against kissing your spouse in public? You probably don't have a spouse, so you might fit in. Bring SPF 150 sunscreen and enjoy it, maybe you can fly "Diamond Class" for $400.... Go for it!



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sniper]

Perhaps R.A. should start competing instead of bitching ? Put a 777 on the route to Abu Dhabi and make use of that excellent customs pre-clearance station. We'll see how well Deltas Business Elite compares to a 3 Class Etihad service.

Are you wearing your emiratee wardrobe as well?

Fu-- the 3 Gulf airlines ....EE and Q
Fly your planes anywhere else but the US of A

 

[Varmint]

ALPA and this group sure stopped a lot. Dubai next in line for a US customs pre-clearance facility after the one that would never be allowed to open in Abu Dhabi, actually opens.

http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/coming-soon-clear-us-customs-at-dubai-international-1.1283050

 

[KarmaPolice]

Money talks in the USA, and the spineless walk. Solid middle class jobs will continue to be outsourced to the ME. And, as a slap in the face, on this site, and elsewhere, we have 777 flying big shot expats bragging about their "QOL" and superior product, as if they were geniuses for undercutting their neighbors and countrymen.

 

[Varmint]

Money talks in the USA, and the spineless walk. Solid middle class jobs will continue to be outsourced to the ME. And, as a slap in the face, on this site, and elsewhere, we have 777 flying big shot expats bragging about their "QOL" and superior product, as if they were geniuses for undercutting their neighbors and countrymen.

While you may interpret many of the facts as "bragging", on the flip side of the coin you have guys who can't fathom why someone would go overseas to work or why someone would do something differently from what they envision. If someone plays dirty pool and throw insults and make fun of someone for deciding to work in a location/company that they would not have chosen, then the "facts" and "benefits" of working at such a place will probably come out in a retort.

The jobs here are middle class also....wouldn't a shortage of pilots in the US enhanced by outsourcing to the middle east actually benefit wages/conditions at US carriers rather than hurt them?

 

[SIG600]

While you may interpret many of the facts as "bragging", on the flip side of the coin you have guys who can't fathom why someone would go overseas to work or why someone would do something differently from what they envision. If someone plays dirty pool and throw insults and make fun of someone for deciding to work in a location/company that they would not have chosen, then the "facts" and "benefits" of working at such a place will probably come out in a retort.

The jobs here are middle class also....wouldn't a shortage of pilots in the US enhanced by outsourcing to the middle east actually benefit wages/conditions at US carriers rather than hurt them?

Not when those State sponsored carriers are Circumventing US labor laws. Can Delta pay third world ramp workers from Pakistan $5/day? Can United tell flight attendants they're done flying at 27 thus keeping the FA pool younger and paid less? How's that pilots union working out at Emirates, Qatar, etc.? Feel like you'll be ok if you happen to have a bad day? Management got your back since there is no union? Gonna get that upgrade in seniority order?

Let's not forget major ($160 billion) aircraft purchases with gov't money, which is then FINANCED with US taxpayer dollars, at interest rates US carriers can't get.

I could go on, but what you postulate is an assembly line worker moving to China to do the same job, taking his job and the industry with him, then wondering why all his old friends back home hate him.

 

[madjack]

Dicko is right, DL should Compete in that market: bring high yield ME pax to US...even state run carriers want to make a profit and competition in UAE would be healthy..the $$$ are in the ME oil countries and the US wants to facilitate travel to the US to get those petro dollars in the country...

 

[Noserider76]

In return did we get a customs pre clearance facility in the US for The UAE? If not, why?